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They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so. They’re facing the classic innovator’s dilemma. It will

They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so. They’re facing the classic innovator’s dilemma. It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles, and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.

epolanski 1y ago
VW is the sales leader in EVs in Europe, they don't need to win the future, they are already winning the present. Also, VW sold half a million EVs in H1 2025, Tesla sold 730k, so even globally they are closer than you think and VW will likely pass Tesla at current growth rates by halfway 2027. Also, FYI, Europeans haven't been building ICEs for some time. The last (non sports car) serious ICE developed in Europe was the Mercedes Benz OM654 diesel engine.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
  Thanks for the details and corrections!
constantcrying 1y ago
>It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles Current VW Models can compete with Tesla on equal footing. By sales VW is the defacto winner of the European EV Market. >they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies. VW has been developing the MEB Platform since a decade. It has not developed a new ICE Platform in that time. How are they culturally "prioritizing" ICE, when they have completely abandoned ICE development on a platform level? Going back to ICE would be a total disaster for VW, the company is completely all in on electrification.
breve 1y ago
> They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so Volkswagen sells the most EVs in Europe. In fact, Volkswagen's EV market share in Europe is currently the highest it's ever been: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Quarters https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Q... Volkswagen owns many brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Cupra, etc.). Their sales are split across many brands and models.
- hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
  Thanks. I didn’t realize the Volkswagen family of brands was so large. I was thinking specifically about the VW brand itself.
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    > I was thinking specifically about the VW brand itself. VW seem to have been consciously moving attention away from the VW brand for a while. In particular, brands like SEAT and Skoda, which a few decades ago were primarily local brands, are now promoted Europe-wide.
- Zigurd 1y ago
  It's not too surprising that VW sells the most EV's in their domestic (EU) market that still has significant EV incentives in place. If anything they should be selling more but they managed to screw up their software situation pretty badly. Once they integrate what they've licensed from Rivian, that situation should improve.
hulitu 1y ago
> and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies. Some people still need a reason to carry a 1 Ton battery with them all the time. /s
rsynnott 1y ago
... I mean, VW Group is the largest seller of EVs in Europe. How are you defining 'winning' here? Some sort of monopoly? The whole "electric cars in Europe" thing is a fascinating example of what the media finds interesting vs reality. If you got caught up in the media coverage, you'd probably think it was Tesla vs BYD. Here is the reality: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Bar/All-time-by-Years https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Bar/All-time-by-Ye... (you can definitely see the impact of the Swasticar Problem in 2025). In the past decade, Tesla has spent maybe a year in the lead. It is currently the smallest player in the top eight. BYD is not even _in_ the top eight. It is not even the best-selling Chinese manufacturer; that'd be Geely (which does just scrape into the top eight). (Minor caveat on these numbers: IMO Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi is not a _proper_ auto group, and should probably be split out.) From the media's point of view, the trouble is that "VW is selling a lot of cars" is a _boring_ narrative; that is what one expects to happen. "Two foreign companies are jockeying for position in the market" is a somewhat more interesting one, even if neither actually sells very many cars.

epolanski 1y ago

VW is the sales leader in EVs in Europe, they don't need to win the future, they are already winning the present. Also, VW sold half a million EVs in H1 2025, Tesla sold 730k, so even globally they are closer than you think and VW will likely pass Tesla at current growth rates by halfway 2027. Also, FYI, Europeans haven't been building ICEs for some time. The last (non sports car) serious ICE developed in Europe was the Mercedes Benz OM654 diesel engine.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
Thanks for the details and corrections!

constantcrying 1y ago

>It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles Current VW Models can compete with Tesla on equal footing. By sales VW is the defacto winner of the European EV Market. >they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies. VW has been developing the MEB Platform since a decade. It has not developed a new ICE Platform in that time. How are they culturally "prioritizing" ICE, when they have completely abandoned ICE development on a platform level? Going back to ICE would be a total disaster for VW, the company is completely all in on electrification.

breve 1y ago

> They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so Volkswagen sells the most EVs in Europe. In fact, Volkswagen's EV market share in Europe is currently the highest it's ever been: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Quarters https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Q... Volkswagen owns many brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Cupra, etc.). Their sales are split across many brands and models.

hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
Thanks. I didn’t realize the Volkswagen family of brands was so large. I was thinking specifically about the VW brand itself.
- rsynnott 1y ago
  > I was thinking specifically about the VW brand itself. VW seem to have been consciously moving attention away from the VW brand for a while. In particular, brands like SEAT and Skoda, which a few decades ago were primarily local brands, are now promoted Europe-wide.
Zigurd 1y ago
It's not too surprising that VW sells the most EV's in their domestic (EU) market that still has significant EV incentives in place. If anything they should be selling more but they managed to screw up their software situation pretty badly. Once they integrate what they've licensed from Rivian, that situation should improve.

hulitu 1y ago

> and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies. Some people still need a reason to carry a 1 Ton battery with them all the time. /s

rsynnott 1y ago

... I mean, VW Group is the largest seller of EVs in Europe. How are you defining 'winning' here? Some sort of monopoly? The whole "electric cars in Europe" thing is a fascinating example of what the media finds interesting vs reality. If you got caught up in the media coverage, you'd probably think it was Tesla vs BYD. Here is the reality: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Bar/All-time-by-Years https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Bar/All-time-by-Ye... (you can definitely see the impact of the Swasticar Problem in 2025). In the past decade, Tesla has spent maybe a year in the lead. It is currently the smallest player in the top eight. BYD is not even _in_ the top eight. It is not even the best-selling Chinese manufacturer; that'd be Geely (which does just scrape into the top eight). (Minor caveat on these numbers: IMO Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi is not a _proper_ auto group, and should probably be split out.) From the media's point of view, the trouble is that "VW is selling a lot of cars" is a _boring_ narrative; that is what one expects to happen. "Two foreign companies are jockeying for position in the market" is a somewhat more interesting one, even if neither actually sells very many cars.