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All "AI" providers cut corners in the models right now because the subsidized cost is unsustainable. Grok's latest update made it far worse than the version ri

All "AI" providers cut corners in the models right now because the subsidized cost is unsustainable. Grok's latest update made it far worse than the version right after the Grok-4 release. It makes outright mistakes now. Copilot has cut corners long ago. Google "AI" was always horrible. The whole "AI" experiment was an outrageously expensive IP laundering parlor trick that is meeting economic realities now.

stavros 1y ago
That's a very long-winded way of saying "it was subsidized so it could capture a large market segment, and now that's stopping", which is what SV companies have done since checks notes forever.
- bgwalter 1y ago
  An LLM would have generated four pages on this topic in order to increase the token count! LLMs are advertised for serious applications. I don't recall that CPUs generally hallucinate except for the FDIV bug. Or that AirBnB rents you apartments that don't exist in 30% of all cases. Or that Uber cars drive into a river during 20% of all rides.
  - stavros 1y ago
    Are we talking about economics, or about hallucinations? "CPUs don't hallucinate" would be a reasonable argument if CPUs were an alternative to LLMs, which they aren't, so I'm not really sure what argument you're making there. Seems like you're saying "a calculator makes fewer mistakes than an accountant", which is true, but I still pay an accountant to do my taxes, and not a calculator.
    - bgwalter 1y ago
      I was obviously responding to your "SV companies have been doing that forever". You have introduced the general topic.
      - stavros 1y ago
        I don't see how CPU bugs have anything to do with subsidizing a product to capture market share, can you elaborate?
        bgwalter 1y ago
        Certainly! Thinking ... - The user is asking about the connection between CPU bugs and price dumping in order to capture market share. - The user appears to miss the original thread starter that mentions cutting corners in models after the subsidy phase is over. - The mention of CPUs, AirBnB and Uber appear to be examples where certain quality standards were usually kept even after the subsidy phase. Generating response ...
  - NamlchakKhandro 1y ago
    if you don't want hallucinations: - set temp to 0 - be more specific But I'd argue that if your LLM isn't hallucinating, then it's useless
    - eru 1y ago
      How would setting temp to 0 preclude hallucinations?
      - wahnfrieden 1y ago
        It wouldn’t
nicce 1y ago
Not saying that you are completely wrong, but you could try to rephrase this to make a better conversation. I agree that many new model versions are worse than the previous. But it is also related to base rules of the model - they try to please you and manipulate you to like them, way too much.
simonw 1y ago
Charging developers $200/month for Claude Code and getting to a billion in ARR sounds like a pretty great business to be in to me, especially with this growth rate: > Claude Code is reportedly close to generating $1 billion in annualized revenue, up from about $400 million in July. https://techcrunch.com/2025/11/04/anthropic-expects-b2b-demand-to-boost-revenue-to-70b-in-2028-report/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/11/04/anthropic-expects-b2b-dema...
- bgwalter 1y ago
  So Misanthropic claims that 416666.66 software developers have bought their expensive $200 subscription when there are 4.4 million software developers in the US. That sounds reasonable given that 10% of software developers are talkers that need someone to output something that looks like a deliverable. We were however talking profits here, not revenue.
  - simonw 1y ago
    Presumably their "$1bn ARR from Claude Code" number isn't just the $200/month subscribers, they have $20/month and $100/month plans too, both of which their internal analytics could be crediting to Claude Code based on API usage patterns. That $1bn number was in a paywalled Information article which was then re-reported by TechCrunch so the actual source of the number isn't clear. I'm assuming someone leaked to the Information, they appear to have some very useful sources. I doubt this is just US developers - they've boasted about how successful they are in Europe recently too: > Businesses across Europe are trusting Claude with their most important work. As a result, EMEA has become our fastest-growing region, with a run-rate revenue that has grown more than 9x in the past year. https://www.anthropic.com/news/new-offices-in-paris-and-munich-expand-european-presence https://www.anthropic.com/news/new-offices-in-paris-and-muni...
    - bdhdjdjdjdjdj 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - 1y ago
esafak 1y ago
The Chinese open source models don't have this problem -- and they're state of the art!

stavros 1y ago

That's a very long-winded way of saying "it was subsidized so it could capture a large market segment, and now that's stopping", which is what SV companies have done since checks notes forever.

bgwalter 1y ago
An LLM would have generated four pages on this topic in order to increase the token count! LLMs are advertised for serious applications. I don't recall that CPUs generally hallucinate except for the FDIV bug. Or that AirBnB rents you apartments that don't exist in 30% of all cases. Or that Uber cars drive into a river during 20% of all rides.
- stavros 1y ago
  Are we talking about economics, or about hallucinations? "CPUs don't hallucinate" would be a reasonable argument if CPUs were an alternative to LLMs, which they aren't, so I'm not really sure what argument you're making there. Seems like you're saying "a calculator makes fewer mistakes than an accountant", which is true, but I still pay an accountant to do my taxes, and not a calculator.
  - bgwalter 1y ago
    I was obviously responding to your "SV companies have been doing that forever". You have introduced the general topic.
    - stavros 1y ago
      I don't see how CPU bugs have anything to do with subsidizing a product to capture market share, can you elaborate?
      - bgwalter 1y ago
        Certainly! Thinking ... - The user is asking about the connection between CPU bugs and price dumping in order to capture market share. - The user appears to miss the original thread starter that mentions cutting corners in models after the subsidy phase is over. - The mention of CPUs, AirBnB and Uber appear to be examples where certain quality standards were usually kept even after the subsidy phase. Generating response ...
- NamlchakKhandro 1y ago
  if you don't want hallucinations: - set temp to 0 - be more specific But I'd argue that if your LLM isn't hallucinating, then it's useless
  - eru 1y ago
    How would setting temp to 0 preclude hallucinations?
    - wahnfrieden 1y ago
      It wouldn’t

nicce 1y ago

Not saying that you are completely wrong, but you could try to rephrase this to make a better conversation. I agree that many new model versions are worse than the previous. But it is also related to base rules of the model - they try to please you and manipulate you to like them, way too much.

simonw 1y ago

Charging developers $200/month for Claude Code and getting to a billion in ARR sounds like a pretty great business to be in to me, especially with this growth rate: > Claude Code is reportedly close to generating $1 billion in annualized revenue, up from about $400 million in July. https://techcrunch.com/2025/11/04/anthropic-expects-b2b-demand-to-boost-revenue-to-70b-in-2028-report/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/11/04/anthropic-expects-b2b-dema...

bgwalter 1y ago
So Misanthropic claims that 416666.66 software developers have bought their expensive $200 subscription when there are 4.4 million software developers in the US. That sounds reasonable given that 10% of software developers are talkers that need someone to output something that looks like a deliverable. We were however talking profits here, not revenue.
- simonw 1y ago
  Presumably their "$1bn ARR from Claude Code" number isn't just the $200/month subscribers, they have $20/month and $100/month plans too, both of which their internal analytics could be crediting to Claude Code based on API usage patterns. That $1bn number was in a paywalled Information article which was then re-reported by TechCrunch so the actual source of the number isn't clear. I'm assuming someone leaked to the Information, they appear to have some very useful sources. I doubt this is just US developers - they've boasted about how successful they are in Europe recently too: > Businesses across Europe are trusting Claude with their most important work. As a result, EMEA has become our fastest-growing region, with a run-rate revenue that has grown more than 9x in the past year. https://www.anthropic.com/news/new-offices-in-paris-and-munich-expand-european-presence https://www.anthropic.com/news/new-offices-in-paris-and-muni...
  - bdhdjdjdjdjdj 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - 1y ago

esafak 1y ago

The Chinese open source models don't have this problem -- and they're state of the art!