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They make good cars, they deserve to sell. But imho the king of EVs in Europe by the end of the decade are going to be Volkswagen and Stellantis. No foreign c

They make good cars, they deserve to sell. But imho the king of EVs in Europe by the end of the decade are going to be Volkswagen and Stellantis. No foreign car company really stands a chance in the European market imho (besides Toyota of course).

mahmoudhossam 1y ago
Care to expand on why VW and Stellantis are going to dominate the EV market?
- epolanski 1y ago
  VW is already the EV leader by sales, Stellantis will follow suit by the end of the decade at top 2. There are few important reasons: 1. VW and Stellantis combine a huge array of relevant (in EU) brands including (by memory) Jeep, Maserati, Audi, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Porsche, Lancia, Seat, Cupra, Lancia, Skoda, Volkswagen, Opel, Peugeot, Citroen, Lamborghini. 2. VW and Stellantis have already all the network made of service, parts, dealerships. 3. All markets are different, and as you can imagine European brands know how to build cars for that market. 4. Both companies are gigantic and well diversified across the globe with their supply chains and plenty of deals with Chinese ev and battery makers. Even if the Chinese end up dominating the European market, they will still have to build here and do it in a JV.
- scraptor 1y ago
  The government will keep changing the rules until VW wins. Using tariffs, price floors, subsidies, whatever it takes.
  - epolanski 1y ago
    European and national politics have been anything but kind to European automakers for quite some time.
hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so. They’re facing the classic innovator’s dilemma. It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles, and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
- epolanski 1y ago
  VW is the sales leader in EVs in Europe, they don't need to win the future, they are already winning the present. Also, VW sold half a million EVs in H1 2025, Tesla sold 730k, so even globally they are closer than you think and VW will likely pass Tesla at current growth rates by halfway 2027. Also, FYI, Europeans haven't been building ICEs for some time. The last (non sports car) serious ICE developed in Europe was the Mercedes Benz OM654 diesel engine.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
    Thanks for the details and corrections!
- constantcrying 1y ago
  >It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles Current VW Models can compete with Tesla on equal footing. By sales VW is the defacto winner of the European EV Market. >they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies. VW has been developing the MEB Platform since a decade. It has not developed a new ICE Platform in that time. How are they culturally "prioritizing" ICE, when they have completely abandoned ICE development on a platform level? Going back to ICE would be a total disaster for VW, the company is completely all in on electrification.
- breve 1y ago
  > They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so Volkswagen sells the most EVs in Europe. In fact, Volkswagen's EV market share in Europe is currently the highest it's ever been: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Quarters https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Q... Volkswagen owns many brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Cupra, etc.). Their sales are split across many brands and models.
constantcrying 1y ago
Why Stellantis? They are in far worse shape than the competition, their strategy of having one car which is available as ICE and EV seems doomed to failure and their ties to the US will greatly weaken them, as the markets seem to diverge rapidly. Developing ICE only for the US with no ability to sell them in Europe seems dubious, at the same time they can not abandon the US or only sell EVs there. Renault has actually better products than Stellantis and far fewer of the problems.
hulitu 1y ago
> But imho the king of EVs in Europe by the end of the decade are going to be Volkswagen and Stellantis. If they manage to fix their SW bugs, at a competitive price, maybe.
rstuart4133 1y ago
I have a Tesla, and have driven BYD's. The BYD computer system started to run so slowly it's voice driving directions became unrecognizable, then it rebooted itself while on the highway. After rebooting it worked for a while, then the voice started stuttering again. Do do get of lot of BYD for your money, but there is lot of sizzle compared to the Tesla sausage. Tesla cop's a lot of crap. Most of it about is how they perform relative to Elon's promises. That's an awfully high bar, as no car a consumer can buy can come close to what Elon been promising for Tesla. Despite missing that bar by miles, the reality is they are probably the best EV you can buy right now, but they priced accordingly, at a premium (albeit not a huge one). My primary concern about Tesla is whether it will exist in it's current form in 5 or 10 years time. You can't trust a word it's CEO says, it's meme stock whose share price must tank to a fraction of it's current value and it's corporate vision seems to be more focused humanoid robots than cars. It's competitors will catch up. I'm told Tesla's are hard to repair, but their support is stellar where I live. A man who only works on Tesls's fixed the tail light my wife smashed while it was parked at home, and upgraded a few other things, all for free. Their charging network is second to none. While all that continues, I recon they deserve to sell a lot of cars. I hope it continues.
- fakedang 1y ago
  The last point is very subjective. Tesla repairs are a hit and mostly miss. Their official repair channel became so bad within the span of a few years (post Covid). Their service quality drops like a cliff after the first year. You're fine if you find a stellar independent mechanic who works mostly on Teslas, but they are very few and hard to come by.
fakedang 1y ago
Stellantis is garbage. Volkswagen is en route to become garbage. Ever driven a Chinese car? European generics don't hold a candle against them. And European cars can no longer claim a premium for higher standards - Chinese cars come with both reasonably good quality and more importantly in this climate, value for money. The only hard part currently is spare parts availability but that's very easy for the Chinese to rectify.

mahmoudhossam 1y ago

Care to expand on why VW and Stellantis are going to dominate the EV market?

epolanski 1y ago
VW is already the EV leader by sales, Stellantis will follow suit by the end of the decade at top 2. There are few important reasons: 1. VW and Stellantis combine a huge array of relevant (in EU) brands including (by memory) Jeep, Maserati, Audi, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Porsche, Lancia, Seat, Cupra, Lancia, Skoda, Volkswagen, Opel, Peugeot, Citroen, Lamborghini. 2. VW and Stellantis have already all the network made of service, parts, dealerships. 3. All markets are different, and as you can imagine European brands know how to build cars for that market. 4. Both companies are gigantic and well diversified across the globe with their supply chains and plenty of deals with Chinese ev and battery makers. Even if the Chinese end up dominating the European market, they will still have to build here and do it in a JV.
scraptor 1y ago
The government will keep changing the rules until VW wins. Using tariffs, price floors, subsidies, whatever it takes.
- epolanski 1y ago
  European and national politics have been anything but kind to European automakers for quite some time.

hshdhdhj4444 1y ago

They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so. They’re facing the classic innovator’s dilemma. It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles, and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.

epolanski 1y ago
VW is the sales leader in EVs in Europe, they don't need to win the future, they are already winning the present. Also, VW sold half a million EVs in H1 2025, Tesla sold 730k, so even globally they are closer than you think and VW will likely pass Tesla at current growth rates by halfway 2027. Also, FYI, Europeans haven't been building ICEs for some time. The last (non sports car) serious ICE developed in Europe was the Mercedes Benz OM654 diesel engine.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
  Thanks for the details and corrections!
constantcrying 1y ago
>It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles Current VW Models can compete with Tesla on equal footing. By sales VW is the defacto winner of the European EV Market. >they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies. VW has been developing the MEB Platform since a decade. It has not developed a new ICE Platform in that time. How are they culturally "prioritizing" ICE, when they have completely abandoned ICE development on a platform level? Going back to ICE would be a total disaster for VW, the company is completely all in on electrification.
breve 1y ago
> They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so Volkswagen sells the most EVs in Europe. In fact, Volkswagen's EV market share in Europe is currently the highest it's ever been: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Quarters https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Q... Volkswagen owns many brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Cupra, etc.). Their sales are split across many brands and models.

constantcrying 1y ago

Why Stellantis? They are in far worse shape than the competition, their strategy of having one car which is available as ICE and EV seems doomed to failure and their ties to the US will greatly weaken them, as the markets seem to diverge rapidly. Developing ICE only for the US with no ability to sell them in Europe seems dubious, at the same time they can not abandon the US or only sell EVs there. Renault has actually better products than Stellantis and far fewer of the problems.

hulitu 1y ago

> But imho the king of EVs in Europe by the end of the decade are going to be Volkswagen and Stellantis. If they manage to fix their SW bugs, at a competitive price, maybe.

rstuart4133 1y ago

I have a Tesla, and have driven BYD's. The BYD computer system started to run so slowly it's voice driving directions became unrecognizable, then it rebooted itself while on the highway. After rebooting it worked for a while, then the voice started stuttering again. Do do get of lot of BYD for your money, but there is lot of sizzle compared to the Tesla sausage. Tesla cop's a lot of crap. Most of it about is how they perform relative to Elon's promises. That's an awfully high bar, as no car a consumer can buy can come close to what Elon been promising for Tesla. Despite missing that bar by miles, the reality is they are probably the best EV you can buy right now, but they priced accordingly, at a premium (albeit not a huge one). My primary concern about Tesla is whether it will exist in it's current form in 5 or 10 years time. You can't trust a word it's CEO says, it's meme stock whose share price must tank to a fraction of it's current value and it's corporate vision seems to be more focused humanoid robots than cars. It's competitors will catch up. I'm told Tesla's are hard to repair, but their support is stellar where I live. A man who only works on Tesls's fixed the tail light my wife smashed while it was parked at home, and upgraded a few other things, all for free. Their charging network is second to none. While all that continues, I recon they deserve to sell a lot of cars. I hope it continues.

fakedang 1y ago
The last point is very subjective. Tesla repairs are a hit and mostly miss. Their official repair channel became so bad within the span of a few years (post Covid). Their service quality drops like a cliff after the first year. You're fine if you find a stellar independent mechanic who works mostly on Teslas, but they are very few and hard to come by.

fakedang 1y ago

Stellantis is garbage. Volkswagen is en route to become garbage. Ever driven a Chinese car? European generics don't hold a candle against them. And European cars can no longer claim a premium for higher standards - Chinese cars come with both reasonably good quality and more importantly in this climate, value for money. The only hard part currently is spare parts availability but that's very easy for the Chinese to rectify.