4 ms·

What is Trump's endgame here? Everyone stranded for Thanksgiving, poor kids going hungry, all for...what, exactly?

0xC0ncord 11mo ago
To own the libs, apparently.
e40 11mo ago
Their goal, since they 80's, has been to make government look incompetent so they can privatize it and use as a weapon against their adversaries (who they argue want "big government").
- black_13 11mo ago
  [dead]
- neilv 11mo ago
  How much do they need that angle anymore? Recent history shows that a lot of the old rules, about persuasion and enabling actions, don't currently apply.
- techblueberry 11mo ago
  I saw this interview with Arie Rothschild, the author of strangers in their own land (https://youtu.be/RywaAeWbXjo https://youtu.be/RywaAeWbXjo). And she described this sort of paradox, that people sort of know that Republicans are the ones screwing them, but the sting from being hurt by the government causes them to be susceptible to the arguments Republicans make about the government not working.
- ryandrake 11mo ago
  Don't forget "so they can make a lot of money off of it." One of the critical legs in the "privatization" stool is to make everything more expensive to line the pockets of people profiting off of what was once a government-provided service.
  - e40 11mo ago
    Yeah, I should have explicitly said that. It's the whole point of privatization. Thanks.
jeffbee 11mo ago
Trump has no remaining mental powers and is not orchestrating this shutdown.
- dangus 11mo ago
  Mike Johnson has been speaker for long enough so that the average follower of politics probably forgets the fiasco behind his selection. He’s really not a very skilled politician at all. And of course, Trump is beyond deep fried, he’s a full blown dementia patient. He has no ability to navigate Congress. He even gave away his party’s leverage by fighting against SNAP payments, giving Democrats no reason to back down. Fun fact, the only two presidents without government shutdowns since the modern budget process began have been Joe Biden and George W. Bush. Joe Biden in particular was a master at navigating Congress and has relationships all over the place across the aisle. The bipartisan infrastructure bill is a really legitimate accomplishment in that sense.
  - xethos 11mo ago
    Without being in favour of it, this is one reason politicians are old. Not necessarily twenty years past typical retirement, but those relationships that were so useful to Biden were built over decades. Getting elected at 40 doesn't mean you also have the history with others in government to actully get things done. Good faith could be assumed in some other countries, and those relationships could, subsuquently, be less vital. But that's not the political environment America has found itself in.
    - dangus 11mo ago
      I think it’s both relationships and being legitimately good at what you do. Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi were in their prime extremely shrewd strategic leaders. Someone like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez started off young and somewhat isolated but has quickly turned into someone who is one of the most important leaders of the party before age 40. The impression I get is that Mike Johnson was not picked for his skills or connections, but because he was someone who his party’s factions didn’t have an existing hate relationship with.
slashdev 11mo ago
Why do you blame Trump for the shutdown? Isn't it caused by Congress basically failing to agree on a funding continuation? (I think it's been ages since they could actually go further and agree on a budget). Government shutdowns are common under both Republican and Democrat administrations. You can say he refuses to compromise, but clearly so does the other side, hence the impasse.
- grebc 11mo ago
  Republican Congress is in his pocket. If he wanted a compromise you bet your bottom dollar it would happen.
  - tialaramex 11mo ago
    There's a conflict because Trump thinks the obvious way forward is you destroy the filibuster, and the Republicans in the Senate fear that when there are more Democrats - say, after the mid-terms - they need the filibuster or else Democratic priorities can become law by simple majority. Imagine trying to explain to Trump that you can't destroy the filibuster because too many of your colleagues might lose an election. It's like telling a five year old that he can't have desert because he hasn't eaten the vegetables. He doesn't want to eat the vegetables, you are a bad person because rather than agreeing with him you're acting as if he's wrong, which is inconceivable. Some of Trump's advisors may have the idea that they can rig the 2026 elections and so it won't matter. A big problem is that some of these advisors also assured senators that they'd locked down 2020 and that didn't go so well. To Trump this seems irrelevant. Why should he care about Susan Collins? She's not even hot, and hasn't given him any cool trinkets. So what if she loses to some Democrat? They're both losers, Trump is the ultimate and his people have told him that over 600% of people support Trump, if she loses that's her fault. So that's a problem, a recurring problem and so far this term the solution has generally been to ignore Trump's useless suggestions but not do anything he explicitly forbids. Trouble is, Trump doesn't care about the shutdown but the at-risk Republican senators do care.
    - grebc 11mo ago
      I actually give Trump more credit for understanding scrapping filibuster is the wrong move. I also think he’s smart enough to realise people think he’s dumb. So he says scrap filibuster as a way to sow the seeds that there’s tension where there really isn’t. Maybe it’s too much 4D chess but he is a master manipulator of media/public opinion.
yieldcrv 11mo ago
Given that Trump and the left have the same view on this government shutdown as they’re both acknowledging how Republicans control both houses, I wouldn’t say this is part of any plan he has. Trump has called for the Senate to remove the filibuster, which would allow for the government to reopen with a simple majority instead of needing more votes from Democrats One could say the only endgame is unilateral control But this is an issue with Congress which Trump does not control. The Senate is not considering getting rid of the filibuster because of the threat its used in favor of Democrats after midterms
- actionfromafar 11mo ago
  Trump needs to sooth the Senate with the message there will be no midterms.
  - yieldcrv 11mo ago
    lmao that could actually work, scary
- immibis 11mo ago
  AFAIK the existence of the filibuster is something that's separately decided every session. I think if the Republicans delete it for this session, and Democrats win the next one, they'll bring it back because they suffer from extreme normalcy bias / Business As Usual syndrome.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
pjdemers 11mo ago
There is no end game. He makes everything up as he goes along. When (if?) the shutdown ends, he will claim victory no matter what the outcome. If it doesn't end, he will still claim victory. He always wins.
Tiktaalik 11mo ago
Poor people starving is the upside for these folks.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]

To own the libs, apparently.

e40 11mo ago

Their goal, since they 80's, has been to make government look incompetent so they can privatize it and use as a weapon against their adversaries (who they argue want "big government").

black_13 11mo ago
[dead]
neilv 11mo ago
How much do they need that angle anymore? Recent history shows that a lot of the old rules, about persuasion and enabling actions, don't currently apply.
techblueberry 11mo ago
I saw this interview with Arie Rothschild, the author of strangers in their own land (https://youtu.be/RywaAeWbXjo https://youtu.be/RywaAeWbXjo). And she described this sort of paradox, that people sort of know that Republicans are the ones screwing them, but the sting from being hurt by the government causes them to be susceptible to the arguments Republicans make about the government not working.
ryandrake 11mo ago
Don't forget "so they can make a lot of money off of it." One of the critical legs in the "privatization" stool is to make everything more expensive to line the pockets of people profiting off of what was once a government-provided service.
- e40 11mo ago
  Yeah, I should have explicitly said that. It's the whole point of privatization. Thanks.

jeffbee 11mo ago

Trump has no remaining mental powers and is not orchestrating this shutdown.

dangus 11mo ago
Mike Johnson has been speaker for long enough so that the average follower of politics probably forgets the fiasco behind his selection. He’s really not a very skilled politician at all. And of course, Trump is beyond deep fried, he’s a full blown dementia patient. He has no ability to navigate Congress. He even gave away his party’s leverage by fighting against SNAP payments, giving Democrats no reason to back down. Fun fact, the only two presidents without government shutdowns since the modern budget process began have been Joe Biden and George W. Bush. Joe Biden in particular was a master at navigating Congress and has relationships all over the place across the aisle. The bipartisan infrastructure bill is a really legitimate accomplishment in that sense.
- xethos 11mo ago
  Without being in favour of it, this is one reason politicians are old. Not necessarily twenty years past typical retirement, but those relationships that were so useful to Biden were built over decades. Getting elected at 40 doesn't mean you also have the history with others in government to actully get things done. Good faith could be assumed in some other countries, and those relationships could, subsuquently, be less vital. But that's not the political environment America has found itself in.
  - dangus 11mo ago
    I think it’s both relationships and being legitimately good at what you do. Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi were in their prime extremely shrewd strategic leaders. Someone like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez started off young and somewhat isolated but has quickly turned into someone who is one of the most important leaders of the party before age 40. The impression I get is that Mike Johnson was not picked for his skills or connections, but because he was someone who his party’s factions didn’t have an existing hate relationship with.

slashdev 11mo ago

Why do you blame Trump for the shutdown? Isn't it caused by Congress basically failing to agree on a funding continuation? (I think it's been ages since they could actually go further and agree on a budget). Government shutdowns are common under both Republican and Democrat administrations. You can say he refuses to compromise, but clearly so does the other side, hence the impasse.

grebc 11mo ago
Republican Congress is in his pocket. If he wanted a compromise you bet your bottom dollar it would happen.
- tialaramex 11mo ago
  There's a conflict because Trump thinks the obvious way forward is you destroy the filibuster, and the Republicans in the Senate fear that when there are more Democrats - say, after the mid-terms - they need the filibuster or else Democratic priorities can become law by simple majority. Imagine trying to explain to Trump that you can't destroy the filibuster because too many of your colleagues might lose an election. It's like telling a five year old that he can't have desert because he hasn't eaten the vegetables. He doesn't want to eat the vegetables, you are a bad person because rather than agreeing with him you're acting as if he's wrong, which is inconceivable. Some of Trump's advisors may have the idea that they can rig the 2026 elections and so it won't matter. A big problem is that some of these advisors also assured senators that they'd locked down 2020 and that didn't go so well. To Trump this seems irrelevant. Why should he care about Susan Collins? She's not even hot, and hasn't given him any cool trinkets. So what if she loses to some Democrat? They're both losers, Trump is the ultimate and his people have told him that over 600% of people support Trump, if she loses that's her fault. So that's a problem, a recurring problem and so far this term the solution has generally been to ignore Trump's useless suggestions but not do anything he explicitly forbids. Trouble is, Trump doesn't care about the shutdown but the at-risk Republican senators do care.
  - grebc 11mo ago
    I actually give Trump more credit for understanding scrapping filibuster is the wrong move. I also think he’s smart enough to realise people think he’s dumb. So he says scrap filibuster as a way to sow the seeds that there’s tension where there really isn’t. Maybe it’s too much 4D chess but he is a master manipulator of media/public opinion.

yieldcrv 11mo ago

Given that Trump and the left have the same view on this government shutdown as they’re both acknowledging how Republicans control both houses, I wouldn’t say this is part of any plan he has. Trump has called for the Senate to remove the filibuster, which would allow for the government to reopen with a simple majority instead of needing more votes from Democrats One could say the only endgame is unilateral control But this is an issue with Congress which Trump does not control. The Senate is not considering getting rid of the filibuster because of the threat its used in favor of Democrats after midterms

actionfromafar 11mo ago
Trump needs to sooth the Senate with the message there will be no midterms.
- yieldcrv 11mo ago
  lmao that could actually work, scary
immibis 11mo ago
AFAIK the existence of the filibuster is something that's separately decided every session. I think if the Republicans delete it for this session, and Democrats win the next one, they'll bring it back because they suffer from extreme normalcy bias / Business As Usual syndrome.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

pjdemers 11mo ago

There is no end game. He makes everything up as he goes along. When (if?) the shutdown ends, he will claim victory no matter what the outcome. If it doesn't end, he will still claim victory. He always wins.

Tiktaalik 11mo ago

Poor people starving is the upside for these folks.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]