11 ms·

How to declutter, quiet down, and take the AI out of Windows 11 25H2

69 points by mariuz 11mo ago

frameset 11mo ago
Whilst I appreciate you can do this, and some people have programs they need Windows for, I am sick of fighting my OS. One thing I realised when I switched to desktop Linux was just how quiet it was. It just sits there until I want to do something. It doesn't try and trick me into changing my default browser, or put adverts in my program launcher, or harvest my data. It just runs my programs when I ask it to.
- ryandrake 11mo ago
  I'm tired of fighting my software in general, not just my OS. I only wish it was as easy to "declutter, quiet down, and take the AI out of" my other software as it apparently is to do with Windows. I'm tired of all the pushiness, nudging, pressuring, and coercion. Software products should not be trying to change my behavior.
  - exe34 11mo ago
    I feel like that also happens on Linux tbh. Gnome has very specific ideas of how everything should be, and anything they let you do through plugins today, they will take away tomorrow. Of course, you have the option of not using gnome. I myself use xmonad and don't bother with desktop environments anymore.
    - pcdoodle 11mo ago
      I tried Gnome 5 years ago and all we could do is point and laugh at it. I tried it recently with a new framework laptop "official support" and all, still a horrible OOBE and I don't feel like I can trust them.
      - bitwize 11mo ago
        GNOME was started by a guy who thought Microsoft was peak software design. Its founding document is called "Let's Make Unix Not Suck" where not sucking basically means being more like Windows. Make of that what you will.
        youngNed 11mo ago
        That's OK. That was a different time, that was an effort to attract people, for whom, windows was their baseline. Bringing people in like that was not a wrong decision, many people first experience of non windows was gnome, many of those stuck around.
        type0 11mo ago
        > GNOME was started by a guy who thought Microsoft was peak software design It was then, now it's about trying to outapple MacOS in braindead minimalism
        prmoustache 11mo ago
        How is gnome minimalistic compared to say, a default conf of fvwm, dwm, i3, sway, weston? It has all the things most people need: access to wifi/bluetooth/launcher/a file manager, apps for nearly everything, etc. Yes it is opinionated and there are stuff you can only configure using gconf or extensions if the default conf is not your preference but minimalistic it isn't. Anyway I don't really understand the Gnome bashing when there are KDE and at least 6 or 7 other complete desktops availables for the users + millions of windows managers and wayland compositors for those that want a more personalized experience. The fact it is proposed as a default desktop by many distros who aren't forced to choose it is a testament at how sane its defaults are. It is not like the situation in the windows and macOS where the desktop is almost impossible to customize without breaking stuff[1] [1] I tried litestep on windows decades ago, it was mostly usable but it only changed the shell, windows were still managed the same terrible way as in vanilla windows.
        exe34 11mo ago
    - andrew_lettuce 11mo ago
      I think there's a fundamental difference between software with strong opinions and software that fights and tricks you. I definitely use some applications "wrong" but I recognize and accept that's on me. The programs don't really care, but Windows feels like a lawn mower that hates me, or Larry Ellison.
    - jwrallie 11mo ago
      I like Gnome on my Surface Go, because the defaults make sense on a touch interface, but all my other computers are running Xfce. I changed the panel to mimic OpenSuse (it’s already a preloaded template) and it is perfect for using with a keyboard and mouse with a familiar interface. If anyone is looking for a desktop environment that does not get in your way, that is the one. Things evolve slowly on Xfce, it is for some of us a feature, not a bug.
  - ivanjermakov 11mo ago
    This is really uncommon outside of bigtech/VC startup companies' products. The only "misbehaving" Linux programs I can name from the top of my head are google chrome and postman (both which I no longer use). This problem is unfortunately also prevalent in websites and it's even harder to evade.
    - estimator7292 11mo ago
      I installed bare chromium the other day and it reset all of my defaults without asking. Brave asks every single time to be my new default BFF. Librewolf doesn't ever say a goddamn thing and that's how it should be.
sharts 11mo ago
Probably better by now to just drop windows. Other ecosystems seem fairly mature by now and running the one off windows application when necessary seems to be getting easier all the time.
- moepstar 11mo ago
  Indeed, leaving Windows behind for the odd application is easy. With the depreciation of my late 2017 Intel iMac 5k incoming, i however wonder how to ditch macOS for Linux and keep the one odd Mac App I kinda depend on - ideas welcome! If you’re wondering, the App is MoneyMoney and keeps track of all bank accounts automatically, sorts all spendings into categories etc. There simply seems to be no equivalent, and running Mac Apps on Linux just doesn’t seem to be a thing yet (at least in a half-viable way I know of, and yes, I at least read about Darling). Again, if anyone does have a pointer (running macOS virtualized? What’s the status there?) would be much appreciated.. Edit: oh and i fully intend to keep using the iMac, its an i7 with 64GB RAM and the 5k display is still so gorgeous to look at.
  - vbezhenar 11mo ago
    https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM
- makeitdouble 11mo ago
  > fairly mature That's the part that's hiting me the most. Macos and major linux envs are squarely focused on traditional desktop experience, mouse and keyboard, and I sense a "that should be good enough for everybody" patronizing vibe from the designers of the interfaces. Gnome did a big effort to better support touch, but that's thousand miles away from what win11 supports and I got the sense they didn't actually try to use it day to day with a Z13 with no keyboard attached for instance (dumb anecdote: tried to vim a config, just to realize the stock virtual keyboard has no escape key) And I get it, the vast majority of the community probably doesn't give a damn about touch or even actively dispises it. That just leaves people who found actual benefits to the paradigm stuck in dark corner where fighting win11 has a better ROI than fighting a whole community.
doublerabbit 11mo ago
I've used Revision [0] which tightly strips Microsoft rubbish out of the OS on my mother's new build. Rather then relying on GitHub PowerShell scripts I was skeptical at first but after having a phone call with her today and telling me it just works. That made me happy [0] https://www.revi.cc/ https://www.revi.cc/
- Marsymars 11mo ago
  That is a very opinionated tool - it doesn't just uninstall some bloat, it disables Windows Updates, Windows Defender, memory compression, automatic BitLocker, core parking, switches to dark mode by default, adjusts the time the OS waits to kill apps, adjusts cursor acceleration, etc. (And it has an open issue of "default settings cause overheating during sleep".)
  - mycall 11mo ago
    No Windows Updates is the worst part of all that. The rest one can live without.
    - doublerabbit 11mo ago
      It comes with Windows Update. It's just paused, you can always resume it manually.
awesomeusername 11mo ago
I've been Linux only for around 15 years personally, but I don't push it on others. A few weeks ago I told the company our few Windows machines are going to be sunset-ted. No push back (other than a request to have one for the odd thing - but will do that in a VM. Even the devs who have always been on Windows are up for it. At home my kids use computers for playing and making games. Windows was the path of least resistance. I realized it'll make essentially no difference to them to switch to Linux. And boy do kids adapt quickly. So thanks MS, sincerely. I've never both worked and lived completely Windows free, but your encouragement to drop Windows has made me realize how painless it is, and I should have done it years ago. Edit: One guy is on mac. And always will be. No issue there IMHO
- jeffrallen 11mo ago
  2025, the year of Linux on the desktop. :)
  - awesomeusername 11mo ago
    Ha, it might be real this time, ironically all thanks to MS!
- uxcolumbo 11mo ago
  What about people who need to use creative tools? There is Blender and Davinci Resolve, which are great. But GIMP is just not a match for Affinity. And what about apps like Ableton? I wish I could make the full switch, but it's just not possible at the moment.
  - rzwitserloot 11mo ago
    Network effects says that is long-term immaterial; there just needs to be some event that breaks a self-reinforcing cycle. The reason there is no linux version of Affinity is thus simple: Because there aren't enough linux users to warrant spending the relatively tiny cost it takes to do that. It won't cost much and it won't significantly change Affinity as a product to have a linux release. They just don't bother; not enough paying users. And why aren't there enough linux users? Because Affinity, for one, doesn't run on it. That is the self reinforcing cycle that so far kept Windows around as default choice. But that cycle can be broken. If not through a sudden burst based on some serious hype, then perhaps simply with slow and steady change.
bm3719 11mo ago
Why bother? If you run updates, it'll randomly crap on all your custom settings anyway. You win, MS. I thought I could keep a Windows box around for the occasional game and as an emergency backup for when I need random peripherals to "just work". I give up. The current Windows box (which I barely use anyway) is my last one.
- jazzyjackson 11mo ago
  You upgrade to professional and edit the local group policy settings and this is no longer a problem Microsoft is user hostile and all but there is a good product in there somewhere
  - PhageGenerator 11mo ago
    Even upgrading to Pro is not enough to completly remove all the junk in Windows without an unreasonable amount of effort. Enterprise is easier to debloat but that is not as easy to come by for the average user.
    - jazzyjackson 11mo ago
      Suppose it depends on your definition of unreasonable. People spend a lot more time screwing the linux configurations, it's annoying defaults.
      - PhageGenerator 11mo ago
        There is a difference between fiddling with configurations on Linux to fit your personal preferences and turning off all the bloat included in Windows out of the box. I have two perspectives on this, as a user and as a Windows admin. And I apologize in advance that this turned into a bit of a rant. As a user all these things are at best annoyances to work around and at worst borderline malicious. You can easily remove the ads in the Start menu, uninstall the built-in apps you don't need and turn off the things you don't want. Sure upgrading to Pro offers more options to turn off some (but not all) of the bloat in Windows. However a significant portion of the tweaks needed to turn things off either needs Pro to get access to local group policy or diving into the registry to adjust dozens of values, and this is not something I consider accessible by average users. And there are some things like the constant reminders to sign-in with a Microsoft account that cannot be disabled in any way. I am aware that there are de-bloat scripts which preform these actions automatically for the less technical users, but asking users to run random scripts as the first thing to do on a new system to fix issues sets a bad precedent and is not something that I think should be widely encouraged since that behavior can be easily exploited since the users that need those kinds of tools may not fully appreciate the consequences of their actions. With regards to malicious behavior take OneDrive. By default OneDrive will start on login then prompt the user with a system notification to sign-in to OneDrive to backup their files and the only options it gives the user is to either say "Yes" or "Remind me later". The only options to stop this are either to uninstall OneDrive or apply a setting via GPO to stop OneDrive from generating network traffic until a user signs-in. And in the security center if you don't sign-in to OneDrive it will always display a warning that your files are not protected because you are not using OneDrive, and as far as I know there is no way to disable that on editions other than Enterprise even if you uninstall OneDrive. For the average user the easiest way to make these annoyances go away is to sign-in to OneDrive. I cannot tell you how many people have come to me complaining that they signed in to OneDrive and now all their files have disappeared because OneDrive moved everything to a different folder then removed all the local copies of files that had been synced to the cloud and because their computer was not connected to the Internet they could not access the files that now lived only in the cloud. I think OneDrive is a prime example of the issues I have overall with Windows these days, it effectively gives the user as little agency as possible in using their system by constantly nagging them to enable things they may not want or even understand with the only options presented being to just do what it tells you. As an admin I have a much poorer opinion of the work required to completely de-bloat a "clean" Windows install. In addition to all of the above let's consider the Start menu. In a Windows environment it is not practical to manually remove the offending shortcuts in the Start menu since those are set in each user profile and I am not going to follow every user around to manually clean up their Start menus every time they login to a new computer. Pro editions of Windows 11 actually do have the ability to customize what shortcuts appear in the Start menu by default for new user accounts and this does allow for removing the ads. However that particular Start menu layout policy can only be set by an MDM, it seems Microsoft has made the decision to not provide a group policy option for applying a Start menu layout in Windows 11 like they did with Windows 10. This means if you are exclusively managing Windows with an on-prem Active Directory you can't remove the ads from the Start menu using a managed policy. You can upgrade to Enterprise which does have a simple option to turn off all the consumer features, however I know of exactly zero businesses that will pay the significant extra for Enterprise just to disable these annoyances that everyone is already used to. Microsoft has turned Windows into a tool that does everything in its power funnel users to Microsoft cloud services. The user experience is being actively degraded with all the nagging and forced usage of their services such that the path of least resistance to get rid of all that is to give up and just sign-in with a cloud account. Now to be clear, I don't have a problem with Microsoft offering these services and I can see how they can be useful things for some people, the problem I have is the way they are going about it. It is great that we have so many people working to make sure we can de-bloat Windows and turn it back into a usable platform for those of us who don't want any of these forced features. But at the end of the day this is software that we are paying for that does not respect its users.
bitwize 11mo ago
Microsoft will just cotton onto the workarounds, block them, and force the crudware back in in an update. The only way to win this game is not to play. Use a different OS. It will hit Microsoft where it hurts. Although that may hasten Linux's demise, since it is only by Microsoft's good graces that Linux is allowed to run on PCs in the first place. Linux is Zion (The Matrix)—not a true resistance, but controlled opposition that reinfirces dominance. Once it gets too big, the Architect can wipe it and start again.
- Retz4o4 11mo ago
  Then what’s the best option? (Other than to not play)
  - Wowfunhappy 11mo ago
    Windows LTSC.
    - wkat4242 11mo ago
      LTSC is not as good as it used to be. There's no "all telemetry off" button, there's still a Windows store in the latest version. You still can't turn updates off. I guess you can do these things in group policies but it used to be much better in the gui. Ps yes I'm using the IoT Enterprise LTSC. Not the non IoT
      - Wowfunhappy 11mo ago
        It's true that you can't turn disable software updates without a registry edit, but those updates are purely security patches and nothing else. Although I do believe on principle that users should always be able to control updates, there's really not a lot to complain about here. (And you can control the updates, with a registry edit.) > there's still a Windows store in the latest version. There is? Not in mine. I just double checked, I'm running Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2024, which appears to still be the latest.
derac 11mo ago
I recommend IoT LTSC
BrenBarn 11mo ago
It will be hilarious if the thing that finally brings us "the year of Linux on the desktop" is not some killer new advance in Linux UX, but just the implosion of the Windows UX.
dade_ 11mo ago
Everything is moved to Linux, but I still need Windows for the occasional proprietary Office document and tax software, which is available for Mac. I expect Windows 10 malware to be horrific so security risk is unacceptable and I despise Windows 11. I guess I’m buying a MacBook Air.
typpilol 11mo ago
My windows won't update due to some firmware bug past 23h2, every time I try it just blue screens, even from a disk Didn't think it would end up being the perfect time to stop taking feature updates and use security updates alone
ChrisArchitect 11mo ago
Speaking of cleaning up, as evidenced in the url this is just an article repurposed multiple times earlier this year and a year earlier than that. Thanks Ars.
thw_9a83c 11mo ago
It is quite telling that a mainstream portal like Ars Technica is publishing an article on how to de-clutter and de-AI Windows.
- wkat4242 11mo ago
  On that subject I really miss deep technical publications these days. Anandtech is gone and it was already down the hole when its namesake left for Apple. Ars never was really deep but it seems more shallow these days. Here in Europe we had ix but it stopped publishing in Holland (not sure if it's still in Germany).
angeldimitrov94 11mo ago
Windows was tolerable up until they introduced their extremely intrusive service that will monitor if the user has disabled Windows updates and then undo the user's settings quietly and without notification, again allowing the updates to occur. This single feature is almost certain to kill off the use of Windows for any important use cases, like kiosk-type softwares in non-trivial environments. It's impossible to control software updates deterministically.
- throwaway173738 11mo ago
  They want you to use IOT for kiosk use cases.
  - angeldimitrov94 11mo ago
    Of course, but good luck telling companies who have legacy softwares to go ahead and start testing IOT as well...it's the situation we are in and I can tell you that vendors do not want to test on IOT even though it's painfully clear that there is no alternative to it. It's an incredibly murky situation for those who rely on such vendors, especially ones for software for V&V'd environments.
- ambarp2 11mo ago
  You forgot about how they have confusing setup screens for each major Windows update. Every one of my and my family’s machines have been swapped from Chrome to Edge. They can’t find their bookmarks, don’t know how things work, and call me to fix it.
pentagrama 11mo ago
Nice guide. One small practical tip I rarely see mentioned: if the setup forces a Microsoft account, just create a fresh throwaway account during install. In my experience it only asked for a name and password, no phone or extra data. Once Windows finishes installing you can immediately disconnect that account and leave it unused, or delete it later if you prefer. No command-line tricks needed, just a quick burner account and you’re done. Plus: I also recommend running O&O ShutUp10++ (ShutUpWin11) for quick privacy hardening. It’s portable and includes a good default preset that makes Windows less intrusive. From the same developer, O&O AppBuster lets you remove bundled apps that can’t normally be uninstalled. Both are one-time portable tools, and while Windows updates may re-enable some settings or reinstall apps, it’s still a solid baseline to start from. Or of course, ditch Windows for Ubuntu, Mint, Zorin or other solid distro, but you can't always do that for friends and family without causing issues for them.
zzo38computer 11mo ago
In case you want to use Windows, hopefully ReactOS can be improved (one thing would be to make it possible to install; I have been told that it is too difficult to install), so that you can use ReactOS instead of Windows. In case you do not want to use Windows, then hopefully Linux or BSD will do. (There are also other operating systems that people make up, but they are less common; nevertheless some people might like it too.)

69 points by mariuz 11mo ago

Whilst I appreciate you can do this, and some people have programs they need Windows for, I am sick of fighting my OS. One thing I realised when I switched to desktop Linux was just how quiet it was. It just sits there until I want to do something. It doesn't try and trick me into changing my default browser, or put adverts in my program launcher, or harvest my data. It just runs my programs when I ask it to.

ryandrake 11mo ago
I'm tired of fighting my software in general, not just my OS. I only wish it was as easy to "declutter, quiet down, and take the AI out of" my other software as it apparently is to do with Windows. I'm tired of all the pushiness, nudging, pressuring, and coercion. Software products should not be trying to change my behavior.
- exe34 11mo ago
  I feel like that also happens on Linux tbh. Gnome has very specific ideas of how everything should be, and anything they let you do through plugins today, they will take away tomorrow. Of course, you have the option of not using gnome. I myself use xmonad and don't bother with desktop environments anymore.
  - pcdoodle 11mo ago
    I tried Gnome 5 years ago and all we could do is point and laugh at it. I tried it recently with a new framework laptop "official support" and all, still a horrible OOBE and I don't feel like I can trust them.
    - bitwize 11mo ago
      GNOME was started by a guy who thought Microsoft was peak software design. Its founding document is called "Let's Make Unix Not Suck" where not sucking basically means being more like Windows. Make of that what you will.
      - youngNed 11mo ago
        That's OK. That was a different time, that was an effort to attract people, for whom, windows was their baseline. Bringing people in like that was not a wrong decision, many people first experience of non windows was gnome, many of those stuck around.
      - type0 11mo ago
        > GNOME was started by a guy who thought Microsoft was peak software design It was then, now it's about trying to outapple MacOS in braindead minimalism
        prmoustache 11mo ago
        How is gnome minimalistic compared to say, a default conf of fvwm, dwm, i3, sway, weston? It has all the things most people need: access to wifi/bluetooth/launcher/a file manager, apps for nearly everything, etc. Yes it is opinionated and there are stuff you can only configure using gconf or extensions if the default conf is not your preference but minimalistic it isn't. Anyway I don't really understand the Gnome bashing when there are KDE and at least 6 or 7 other complete desktops availables for the users + millions of windows managers and wayland compositors for those that want a more personalized experience. The fact it is proposed as a default desktop by many distros who aren't forced to choose it is a testament at how sane its defaults are. It is not like the situation in the windows and macOS where the desktop is almost impossible to customize without breaking stuff[1] [1] I tried litestep on windows decades ago, it was mostly usable but it only changed the shell, windows were still managed the same terrible way as in vanilla windows.
        exe34 11mo ago
  - andrew_lettuce 11mo ago
    I think there's a fundamental difference between software with strong opinions and software that fights and tricks you. I definitely use some applications "wrong" but I recognize and accept that's on me. The programs don't really care, but Windows feels like a lawn mower that hates me, or Larry Ellison.
  - jwrallie 11mo ago
    I like Gnome on my Surface Go, because the defaults make sense on a touch interface, but all my other computers are running Xfce. I changed the panel to mimic OpenSuse (it’s already a preloaded template) and it is perfect for using with a keyboard and mouse with a familiar interface. If anyone is looking for a desktop environment that does not get in your way, that is the one. Things evolve slowly on Xfce, it is for some of us a feature, not a bug.
- ivanjermakov 11mo ago
  This is really uncommon outside of bigtech/VC startup companies' products. The only "misbehaving" Linux programs I can name from the top of my head are google chrome and postman (both which I no longer use). This problem is unfortunately also prevalent in websites and it's even harder to evade.
  - estimator7292 11mo ago
    I installed bare chromium the other day and it reset all of my defaults without asking. Brave asks every single time to be my new default BFF. Librewolf doesn't ever say a goddamn thing and that's how it should be.

sharts 11mo ago

Probably better by now to just drop windows. Other ecosystems seem fairly mature by now and running the one off windows application when necessary seems to be getting easier all the time.

moepstar 11mo ago
Indeed, leaving Windows behind for the odd application is easy. With the depreciation of my late 2017 Intel iMac 5k incoming, i however wonder how to ditch macOS for Linux and keep the one odd Mac App I kinda depend on - ideas welcome! If you’re wondering, the App is MoneyMoney and keeps track of all bank accounts automatically, sorts all spendings into categories etc. There simply seems to be no equivalent, and running Mac Apps on Linux just doesn’t seem to be a thing yet (at least in a half-viable way I know of, and yes, I at least read about Darling). Again, if anyone does have a pointer (running macOS virtualized? What’s the status there?) would be much appreciated.. Edit: oh and i fully intend to keep using the iMac, its an i7 with 64GB RAM and the 5k display is still so gorgeous to look at.
- vbezhenar 11mo ago
  https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM
makeitdouble 11mo ago
> fairly mature That's the part that's hiting me the most. Macos and major linux envs are squarely focused on traditional desktop experience, mouse and keyboard, and I sense a "that should be good enough for everybody" patronizing vibe from the designers of the interfaces. Gnome did a big effort to better support touch, but that's thousand miles away from what win11 supports and I got the sense they didn't actually try to use it day to day with a Z13 with no keyboard attached for instance (dumb anecdote: tried to vim a config, just to realize the stock virtual keyboard has no escape key) And I get it, the vast majority of the community probably doesn't give a damn about touch or even actively dispises it. That just leaves people who found actual benefits to the paradigm stuck in dark corner where fighting win11 has a better ROI than fighting a whole community.

doublerabbit 11mo ago

I've used Revision [0] which tightly strips Microsoft rubbish out of the OS on my mother's new build. Rather then relying on GitHub PowerShell scripts I was skeptical at first but after having a phone call with her today and telling me it just works. That made me happy [0] https://www.revi.cc/ https://www.revi.cc/

Marsymars 11mo ago
That is a very opinionated tool - it doesn't just uninstall some bloat, it disables Windows Updates, Windows Defender, memory compression, automatic BitLocker, core parking, switches to dark mode by default, adjusts the time the OS waits to kill apps, adjusts cursor acceleration, etc. (And it has an open issue of "default settings cause overheating during sleep".)
- mycall 11mo ago
  No Windows Updates is the worst part of all that. The rest one can live without.
  - doublerabbit 11mo ago
    It comes with Windows Update. It's just paused, you can always resume it manually.

awesomeusername 11mo ago

I've been Linux only for around 15 years personally, but I don't push it on others. A few weeks ago I told the company our few Windows machines are going to be sunset-ted. No push back (other than a request to have one for the odd thing - but will do that in a VM. Even the devs who have always been on Windows are up for it. At home my kids use computers for playing and making games. Windows was the path of least resistance. I realized it'll make essentially no difference to them to switch to Linux. And boy do kids adapt quickly. So thanks MS, sincerely. I've never both worked and lived completely Windows free, but your encouragement to drop Windows has made me realize how painless it is, and I should have done it years ago. Edit: One guy is on mac. And always will be. No issue there IMHO

jeffrallen 11mo ago
2025, the year of Linux on the desktop. :)
- awesomeusername 11mo ago
  Ha, it might be real this time, ironically all thanks to MS!
uxcolumbo 11mo ago
What about people who need to use creative tools? There is Blender and Davinci Resolve, which are great. But GIMP is just not a match for Affinity. And what about apps like Ableton? I wish I could make the full switch, but it's just not possible at the moment.
- rzwitserloot 11mo ago
  Network effects says that is long-term immaterial; there just needs to be some event that breaks a self-reinforcing cycle. The reason there is no linux version of Affinity is thus simple: Because there aren't enough linux users to warrant spending the relatively tiny cost it takes to do that. It won't cost much and it won't significantly change Affinity as a product to have a linux release. They just don't bother; not enough paying users. And why aren't there enough linux users? Because Affinity, for one, doesn't run on it. That is the self reinforcing cycle that so far kept Windows around as default choice. But that cycle can be broken. If not through a sudden burst based on some serious hype, then perhaps simply with slow and steady change.

bm3719 11mo ago

Why bother? If you run updates, it'll randomly crap on all your custom settings anyway. You win, MS. I thought I could keep a Windows box around for the occasional game and as an emergency backup for when I need random peripherals to "just work". I give up. The current Windows box (which I barely use anyway) is my last one.

jazzyjackson 11mo ago
You upgrade to professional and edit the local group policy settings and this is no longer a problem Microsoft is user hostile and all but there is a good product in there somewhere
- PhageGenerator 11mo ago
  Even upgrading to Pro is not enough to completly remove all the junk in Windows without an unreasonable amount of effort. Enterprise is easier to debloat but that is not as easy to come by for the average user.
  - jazzyjackson 11mo ago
    Suppose it depends on your definition of unreasonable. People spend a lot more time screwing the linux configurations, it's annoying defaults.
    - PhageGenerator 11mo ago
      There is a difference between fiddling with configurations on Linux to fit your personal preferences and turning off all the bloat included in Windows out of the box. I have two perspectives on this, as a user and as a Windows admin. And I apologize in advance that this turned into a bit of a rant. As a user all these things are at best annoyances to work around and at worst borderline malicious. You can easily remove the ads in the Start menu, uninstall the built-in apps you don't need and turn off the things you don't want. Sure upgrading to Pro offers more options to turn off some (but not all) of the bloat in Windows. However a significant portion of the tweaks needed to turn things off either needs Pro to get access to local group policy or diving into the registry to adjust dozens of values, and this is not something I consider accessible by average users. And there are some things like the constant reminders to sign-in with a Microsoft account that cannot be disabled in any way. I am aware that there are de-bloat scripts which preform these actions automatically for the less technical users, but asking users to run random scripts as the first thing to do on a new system to fix issues sets a bad precedent and is not something that I think should be widely encouraged since that behavior can be easily exploited since the users that need those kinds of tools may not fully appreciate the consequences of their actions. With regards to malicious behavior take OneDrive. By default OneDrive will start on login then prompt the user with a system notification to sign-in to OneDrive to backup their files and the only options it gives the user is to either say "Yes" or "Remind me later". The only options to stop this are either to uninstall OneDrive or apply a setting via GPO to stop OneDrive from generating network traffic until a user signs-in. And in the security center if you don't sign-in to OneDrive it will always display a warning that your files are not protected because you are not using OneDrive, and as far as I know there is no way to disable that on editions other than Enterprise even if you uninstall OneDrive. For the average user the easiest way to make these annoyances go away is to sign-in to OneDrive. I cannot tell you how many people have come to me complaining that they signed in to OneDrive and now all their files have disappeared because OneDrive moved everything to a different folder then removed all the local copies of files that had been synced to the cloud and because their computer was not connected to the Internet they could not access the files that now lived only in the cloud. I think OneDrive is a prime example of the issues I have overall with Windows these days, it effectively gives the user as little agency as possible in using their system by constantly nagging them to enable things they may not want or even understand with the only options presented being to just do what it tells you. As an admin I have a much poorer opinion of the work required to completely de-bloat a "clean" Windows install. In addition to all of the above let's consider the Start menu. In a Windows environment it is not practical to manually remove the offending shortcuts in the Start menu since those are set in each user profile and I am not going to follow every user around to manually clean up their Start menus every time they login to a new computer. Pro editions of Windows 11 actually do have the ability to customize what shortcuts appear in the Start menu by default for new user accounts and this does allow for removing the ads. However that particular Start menu layout policy can only be set by an MDM, it seems Microsoft has made the decision to not provide a group policy option for applying a Start menu layout in Windows 11 like they did with Windows 10. This means if you are exclusively managing Windows with an on-prem Active Directory you can't remove the ads from the Start menu using a managed policy. You can upgrade to Enterprise which does have a simple option to turn off all the consumer features, however I know of exactly zero businesses that will pay the significant extra for Enterprise just to disable these annoyances that everyone is already used to. Microsoft has turned Windows into a tool that does everything in its power funnel users to Microsoft cloud services. The user experience is being actively degraded with all the nagging and forced usage of their services such that the path of least resistance to get rid of all that is to give up and just sign-in with a cloud account. Now to be clear, I don't have a problem with Microsoft offering these services and I can see how they can be useful things for some people, the problem I have is the way they are going about it. It is great that we have so many people working to make sure we can de-bloat Windows and turn it back into a usable platform for those of us who don't want any of these forced features. But at the end of the day this is software that we are paying for that does not respect its users.

bitwize 11mo ago

Microsoft will just cotton onto the workarounds, block them, and force the crudware back in in an update. The only way to win this game is not to play. Use a different OS. It will hit Microsoft where it hurts. Although that may hasten Linux's demise, since it is only by Microsoft's good graces that Linux is allowed to run on PCs in the first place. Linux is Zion (The Matrix)—not a true resistance, but controlled opposition that reinfirces dominance. Once it gets too big, the Architect can wipe it and start again.

Retz4o4 11mo ago
Then what’s the best option? (Other than to not play)
- Wowfunhappy 11mo ago
  Windows LTSC.
  - wkat4242 11mo ago
    LTSC is not as good as it used to be. There's no "all telemetry off" button, there's still a Windows store in the latest version. You still can't turn updates off. I guess you can do these things in group policies but it used to be much better in the gui. Ps yes I'm using the IoT Enterprise LTSC. Not the non IoT
    - Wowfunhappy 11mo ago
      It's true that you can't turn disable software updates without a registry edit, but those updates are purely security patches and nothing else. Although I do believe on principle that users should always be able to control updates, there's really not a lot to complain about here. (And you can control the updates, with a registry edit.) > there's still a Windows store in the latest version. There is? Not in mine. I just double checked, I'm running Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2024, which appears to still be the latest.

derac 11mo ago

I recommend IoT LTSC

BrenBarn 11mo ago

It will be hilarious if the thing that finally brings us "the year of Linux on the desktop" is not some killer new advance in Linux UX, but just the implosion of the Windows UX.

dade_ 11mo ago

Everything is moved to Linux, but I still need Windows for the occasional proprietary Office document and tax software, which is available for Mac. I expect Windows 10 malware to be horrific so security risk is unacceptable and I despise Windows 11. I guess I’m buying a MacBook Air.

typpilol 11mo ago

My windows won't update due to some firmware bug past 23h2, every time I try it just blue screens, even from a disk Didn't think it would end up being the perfect time to stop taking feature updates and use security updates alone

ChrisArchitect 11mo ago

Speaking of cleaning up, as evidenced in the url this is just an article repurposed multiple times earlier this year and a year earlier than that. Thanks Ars.

thw_9a83c 11mo ago

It is quite telling that a mainstream portal like Ars Technica is publishing an article on how to de-clutter and de-AI Windows.

wkat4242 11mo ago
On that subject I really miss deep technical publications these days. Anandtech is gone and it was already down the hole when its namesake left for Apple. Ars never was really deep but it seems more shallow these days. Here in Europe we had ix but it stopped publishing in Holland (not sure if it's still in Germany).

angeldimitrov94 11mo ago

Windows was tolerable up until they introduced their extremely intrusive service that will monitor if the user has disabled Windows updates and then undo the user's settings quietly and without notification, again allowing the updates to occur. This single feature is almost certain to kill off the use of Windows for any important use cases, like kiosk-type softwares in non-trivial environments. It's impossible to control software updates deterministically.

throwaway173738 11mo ago
They want you to use IOT for kiosk use cases.
- angeldimitrov94 11mo ago
  Of course, but good luck telling companies who have legacy softwares to go ahead and start testing IOT as well...it's the situation we are in and I can tell you that vendors do not want to test on IOT even though it's painfully clear that there is no alternative to it. It's an incredibly murky situation for those who rely on such vendors, especially ones for software for V&V'd environments.
ambarp2 11mo ago
You forgot about how they have confusing setup screens for each major Windows update. Every one of my and my family’s machines have been swapped from Chrome to Edge. They can’t find their bookmarks, don’t know how things work, and call me to fix it.

pentagrama 11mo ago

Nice guide. One small practical tip I rarely see mentioned: if the setup forces a Microsoft account, just create a fresh throwaway account during install. In my experience it only asked for a name and password, no phone or extra data. Once Windows finishes installing you can immediately disconnect that account and leave it unused, or delete it later if you prefer. No command-line tricks needed, just a quick burner account and you’re done. Plus: I also recommend running O&O ShutUp10++ (ShutUpWin11) for quick privacy hardening. It’s portable and includes a good default preset that makes Windows less intrusive. From the same developer, O&O AppBuster lets you remove bundled apps that can’t normally be uninstalled. Both are one-time portable tools, and while Windows updates may re-enable some settings or reinstall apps, it’s still a solid baseline to start from. Or of course, ditch Windows for Ubuntu, Mint, Zorin or other solid distro, but you can't always do that for friends and family without causing issues for them.

zzo38computer 11mo ago

In case you want to use Windows, hopefully ReactOS can be improved (one thing would be to make it possible to install; I have been told that it is too difficult to install), so that you can use ReactOS instead of Windows. In case you do not want to use Windows, then hopefully Linux or BSD will do. (There are also other operating systems that people make up, but they are less common; nevertheless some people might like it too.)