7 ms·

Right? Just in a car, we know that talking to someone in the car itself has adverse effects on situational awareness, and talking to someone on a phone is much

Right? Just in a car, we know that talking to someone in the car itself has adverse effects on situational awareness, and talking to someone on a phone is much worse than that. But even after all the research and training that goes into human factors in aviation ... we can't do better than confusing, poor quality, AM band party lines during critical phases of flight?

tekla 11mo ago
Would you rather them read text messages on their iPads?
- 12_throw_away 11mo ago
  Oh of course, those are the only two options: either an AM band party line or text messages on an iPad. Nothing else is possible.
  - tekla 11mo ago
    Open to suggestions. Keep in mind I've worked on Aircraft control systems and have a very strong opinion on reliability and crew management. I also note that the budget isn't infinite nor do these aircraft like running electron apps. Also note that not all (if not most) aircraft are not brand new and so would need all to be retrofitted and re-rerated w/ any new system and every single pilot retrained. This requirement also includes systems for general aviation pilots and both to be able to sync with each other.
    - 12_throw_away 11mo ago
      > Also note that not all (if not most) aircraft are not brand new and so would need all to be retrofitted and re-rerated w/ any new system and every single pilot retrained Ah yes, I forgot, we never introduce new aircraft technology because it's too hard. Too bad we don't, it would be great to fit aircraft, with, say, anti-collision transponders and advanced ground proximity systems. Oh well, my mistake for even bringing it up.
      - anigbrowl 11mo ago
        Suggest a specific idea, instead of this theatrical sarcasm.
- numpad0 11mo ago
  Is your problem a trust issue with always-updating AWS-hosted randomly-banned silently-breaking framework-rotating modern web apps, or something fundamental with GUI based systems? I mean, I wouldn’t trust a literal iPad, but I’m not sure if I distrust an entirely figurative iPad.
  - jkrejcha 11mo ago
    The problem is fundamentally the fact that it is a visual based system. It is generally faster to communicate orally and process communication aurally than by text message when the message is short enough and requires immediate attention. This is also why urgent alarms (such as those provided by the Gound Proximity Warning System (GPWS) or Traffic Collision Avoidance System[1] (TCAS) have such a component). Some stall prevention systems are even partially tactile based (making a pretty unmistakable shaking feeling (it is loud as well)). It is incredibly slow to type and then process that visual information. In addition, it's also just much more reliable. For time critical situations, it's not a viable option. [1]: Yes, TCAS has a visual component and many alarms do too, but the RAs are auditory and give specific, to the point, instructions on what to do ("climb", "descend").
db48x 11mo ago
Keep in mind that the person talking and listening to the radio is not the pilot flying the airplane. Pilot and Copilot alternate which job they are doing. It's not the same as the driver of a car talking on a phone.
jvanderbot 11mo ago
Talking to someone on the phone who has a birds eye view of the road, other drivers, and the map, and only addresses you to help you drive? in no way possible reduces your situational awareness. I refuse to believe that. Now idle chatting with coworker Wendy about dinner will take you out of that situation and make you more dangerous.
PriorityLeft 11mo ago
CPDLC is text messaging between controllers and pilots. It is widely used amongst most carriers. It does not work for time critical situations. Voice and radio is the only solution that will work when you don't have time to type a message.

tekla 11mo ago

Would you rather them read text messages on their iPads?

12_throw_away 11mo ago
Oh of course, those are the only two options: either an AM band party line or text messages on an iPad. Nothing else is possible.
- tekla 11mo ago
  Open to suggestions. Keep in mind I've worked on Aircraft control systems and have a very strong opinion on reliability and crew management. I also note that the budget isn't infinite nor do these aircraft like running electron apps. Also note that not all (if not most) aircraft are not brand new and so would need all to be retrofitted and re-rerated w/ any new system and every single pilot retrained. This requirement also includes systems for general aviation pilots and both to be able to sync with each other.
  - 12_throw_away 11mo ago
    > Also note that not all (if not most) aircraft are not brand new and so would need all to be retrofitted and re-rerated w/ any new system and every single pilot retrained Ah yes, I forgot, we never introduce new aircraft technology because it's too hard. Too bad we don't, it would be great to fit aircraft, with, say, anti-collision transponders and advanced ground proximity systems. Oh well, my mistake for even bringing it up.
    - anigbrowl 11mo ago
      Suggest a specific idea, instead of this theatrical sarcasm.
numpad0 11mo ago
Is your problem a trust issue with always-updating AWS-hosted randomly-banned silently-breaking framework-rotating modern web apps, or something fundamental with GUI based systems? I mean, I wouldn’t trust a literal iPad, but I’m not sure if I distrust an entirely figurative iPad.
- jkrejcha 11mo ago
  The problem is fundamentally the fact that it is a visual based system. It is generally faster to communicate orally and process communication aurally than by text message when the message is short enough and requires immediate attention. This is also why urgent alarms (such as those provided by the Gound Proximity Warning System (GPWS) or Traffic Collision Avoidance System[1] (TCAS) have such a component). Some stall prevention systems are even partially tactile based (making a pretty unmistakable shaking feeling (it is loud as well)). It is incredibly slow to type and then process that visual information. In addition, it's also just much more reliable. For time critical situations, it's not a viable option. [1]: Yes, TCAS has a visual component and many alarms do too, but the RAs are auditory and give specific, to the point, instructions on what to do ("climb", "descend").

db48x 11mo ago

Keep in mind that the person talking and listening to the radio is not the pilot flying the airplane. Pilot and Copilot alternate which job they are doing. It's not the same as the driver of a car talking on a phone.

jvanderbot 11mo ago

Talking to someone on the phone who has a birds eye view of the road, other drivers, and the map, and only addresses you to help you drive? in no way possible reduces your situational awareness. I refuse to believe that. Now idle chatting with coworker Wendy about dinner will take you out of that situation and make you more dangerous.

PriorityLeft 11mo ago

CPDLC is text messaging between controllers and pilots. It is widely used amongst most carriers. It does not work for time critical situations. Voice and radio is the only solution that will work when you don't have time to type a message.