4 ms·

"Always be ready to leave" Big yes "For a year before leaving, I talked openly with my supervisor and HR about my dissatisfaction" Big, big, big no. Might ha

"Always be ready to leave" Big yes "For a year before leaving, I talked openly with my supervisor and HR about my dissatisfaction" Big, big, big no. Might have worked for OP this time but in general this will backfire drastically. In many European countries this can even reduce the usually robust protections you have as an employee.

bartvk 1y ago
It completely depends on the management. Be sure to know them.
grumbelbart 1y ago
> In many European countries this can even reduce the usually robust protections you have as an employee. Huh, where?
- caminante 1y ago
  Huh, why would openly complaining about your job to your boss/HR be protected in a "just cause" regime?
  - ahtihn 1y ago
    Why would complaining reduce existing protections.
    - caminante 1y ago
      Your question makes no sense because nobody said this and if a protection can get reduced, then it's not a real protection, lol.
      - theoreticalmal 1y ago
        “European countries this can even reduce the usually robust protections you have as an employee.”
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        caminante 1y ago
        This (GP) is different than phrasing of parent.
      - ahtihn 1y ago
        Reread the comment chain, because I literally quoted a comment saying that repeatedly voicing your dissatisfaction to your boss can reduce the robust employment protections in some countries in Europe.
        caminante 1y ago
        > I literally quoted a comment Bold claim considering you left off a key part of the quote. It's not reducing the protections (change in law). It's reducing the protections you have. The qualifier you left out changes the meaning.
        ahtihn 1y ago
        Where is "change in law" coming from? How could it possibly mean that in context? Of course the meaning is "reducing the protections you have". And I'm challenging the notion that complaining or voicing dissatisfaction could do that in any European country. Therefore I would like examples of countries where it is the case that simply complaining to your boss has any impact on protections you have.
        caminante 1y ago
        > And I'm challenging the notion that complaining or voicing dissatisfaction could do that in any European country. 'any' ? See "cooperative problems" [0], the EU-wide "duty of loyalty" for (not relevant directly here for internal complaints, but paints a bright line), and countless posts on socials of EU people getting let go for complaining in the workplace. If this doesn't challenge your perception, then we're wasting time. [0] https://businessindenmark.virk.dk/guidance/employment-and-dismissal/resignation-and-termination/ https://businessindenmark.virk.dk/guidance/employment-and-di...
        ahtihn 1y ago
        "Duty of loyalty" is obviously irrelevant here. "Countless posts of people getting let go for whatever reason" is irrelevant too. What protections did these people have that did not apply because they complained to their boss?
ahtihn 1y ago
> In many European countries this can even reduce the usually robust protections you have as an employee. Which countries specifically?
outworlder 1y ago
Indeed. I _have_ been able to (mostly) talk about things that I was dissatisfied about, but out of dozen bosses I had, that was with only two. I wouldn't trust the others to start looking into a replacement the moment I gave even a hint of dissatisfaction. For some others, I could express disagreement about outcomes or company policies, but in some cases even pushing too much on those topics can get you fast tracked out. I have seen it happen. To be able to have (again, mostly) honest conversations with a boss or HR is a privilege. In 99% of the cases, HR is there to protect the company, there were only a handful of HR employees that went above and beyond. And even then, you had to make sure not to use some triggering words. I mean this in the literal sense, there are a few things that, if you say, that triggers an automatic HR response, regardless of who you are talking to. Hinting of leaving, even with an unspecified timeframe, is one of them. In general, don't do this. Also, exit interviews cannot benefit you. Decline.

bartvk 1y ago

It completely depends on the management. Be sure to know them.

grumbelbart 1y ago

> In many European countries this can even reduce the usually robust protections you have as an employee. Huh, where?

caminante 1y ago
Huh, why would openly complaining about your job to your boss/HR be protected in a "just cause" regime?
- ahtihn 1y ago
  Why would complaining reduce existing protections.
  - caminante 1y ago
    Your question makes no sense because nobody said this and if a protection can get reduced, then it's not a real protection, lol.
    - theoreticalmal 1y ago
      “European countries this can even reduce the usually robust protections you have as an employee.”
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - caminante 1y ago
        This (GP) is different than phrasing of parent.
    - ahtihn 1y ago
      Reread the comment chain, because I literally quoted a comment saying that repeatedly voicing your dissatisfaction to your boss can reduce the robust employment protections in some countries in Europe.
      - caminante 1y ago
        > I literally quoted a comment Bold claim considering you left off a key part of the quote. It's not reducing the protections (change in law). It's reducing the protections you have. The qualifier you left out changes the meaning.
        ahtihn 1y ago
        Where is "change in law" coming from? How could it possibly mean that in context? Of course the meaning is "reducing the protections you have". And I'm challenging the notion that complaining or voicing dissatisfaction could do that in any European country. Therefore I would like examples of countries where it is the case that simply complaining to your boss has any impact on protections you have.
        caminante 1y ago
        > And I'm challenging the notion that complaining or voicing dissatisfaction could do that in any European country. 'any' ? See "cooperative problems" [0], the EU-wide "duty of loyalty" for (not relevant directly here for internal complaints, but paints a bright line), and countless posts on socials of EU people getting let go for complaining in the workplace. If this doesn't challenge your perception, then we're wasting time. [0] https://businessindenmark.virk.dk/guidance/employment-and-dismissal/resignation-and-termination/ https://businessindenmark.virk.dk/guidance/employment-and-di...
        ahtihn 1y ago
        "Duty of loyalty" is obviously irrelevant here. "Countless posts of people getting let go for whatever reason" is irrelevant too. What protections did these people have that did not apply because they complained to their boss?

ahtihn 1y ago

> In many European countries this can even reduce the usually robust protections you have as an employee. Which countries specifically?

outworlder 1y ago

Indeed. I _have_ been able to (mostly) talk about things that I was dissatisfied about, but out of dozen bosses I had, that was with only two. I wouldn't trust the others to start looking into a replacement the moment I gave even a hint of dissatisfaction. For some others, I could express disagreement about outcomes or company policies, but in some cases even pushing too much on those topics can get you fast tracked out. I have seen it happen. To be able to have (again, mostly) honest conversations with a boss or HR is a privilege. In 99% of the cases, HR is there to protect the company, there were only a handful of HR employees that went above and beyond. And even then, you had to make sure not to use some triggering words. I mean this in the literal sense, there are a few things that, if you say, that triggers an automatic HR response, regardless of who you are talking to. Hinting of leaving, even with an unspecified timeframe, is one of them. In general, don't do this. Also, exit interviews cannot benefit you. Decline.