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First, this isn't Bret's introductory article on this topic. As far as I know, his first talk about this came in January of this year (watch the Inventing on Pr
by russelluresti 14y ago
First, this isn't Bret's introductory article on this topic. As far as I know, his first talk about this came in January of this year (watch the Inventing on Principle video on Vimeo). Granted, 7-8 months isn't a super long time, but he has never built/tested his ideas, yet asserts them as if they were proven facts.
Also, I know why I'm being down-voted. Bret is an inspiring person. His Vimeo talk, specifically, is very inspiring. He acts on principle, he believes strongly in his ideals, and there are many people who agree with him. So, the people who like Bret are people who align themselves with his ideals. So, when I challenge his vision by asking for data, people who read it feel like I'm challenging them, personally - like I'm challenging their beliefs (because, well, I am - I'm asking them to prove their beliefs). People respond to that kind of challenge in a negative way. It'd be like if you tried to argue the ideas of Steve Jobs with an Apple fan - they're just not going to listen to you, no matter how solid your arguments are.
I, myself, agree strongly with Bret's principles. He's right that developers need better tools and we need a better way to teach programming to people. However, I try to divorce myself from those emotions and still look for facts and evidence. If someone claims A is better than B, I will look for proof, even if my "gut instinct" tells me that they're right. I very well believe Bret could be right, but that doesn't mean we should all just assume he is without evidence.
My point here is that asking someone to give evidence for their arguments is completely acceptable. But, when you challenge the ideas of someone feel emotionally invested in (because their beliefs and ideals are being challenged), you receive negative feedback. Thus, the down-votes. It's actually a very interesting study in how people can be loyal to someone even without evidence of that person being right.
- faceyspacey 14y agoRussel your problem here is that we are looking at something that is about to change technology forever and you are taking the least productive path to discuss it. It's very clear to the majority of us that this is big! It's not tested simply because it's so new and innovative. We are fortunate enough to be the first ones to have this insight shared with. It's now our job to make amazing projects that put it to use and inherently test/prove it. That's what Brett is trying to do here. I don't think you really do grasp the magic of what he has come up with. Yes you saw his video 8 months ago. But if you did truly grok what he is putting forth, you wouldn't make this generic rebuttal about whether its tested or not. That can be applied to anything. We come to hacker news to get the kernels of the newest innovation that is happening around the world before anyone else. If you require ideas to be tested before you do anything with it, you will be late to the party. Your loss. Now Russel can you please stop standing up for this point. It's unfortunately the first thread on this awesome piece and a waste of our energies to discuss. Lets discuss how we are going to implement this watershed idea for innovation!!