4 ms·

Wasn't there even a story some time ago about how some completely legit, legal, above-board app to virtualize old (pre OS X) versions of Mac OS got rejected by

by mort96 1y ago

Wasn't there even a story some time ago about how some completely legit, legal, above-board app to virtualize old (pre OS X) versions of Mac OS got rejected by Apple's notarization process?

makeitdouble 1y ago
Yes. Probably this story ? https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/19/iphone-pc-emulator-block-illegal/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/19/iphone-pc-emulator-block-ille...
- raddan 1y ago
  “UTM SE” is now on the App Store. Perhaps this was just a mistake? https://apps.apple.com/us/app/utm-se-retro-pc-emulator/id1564628856 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/utm-se-retro-pc-emulator/id156...
  - immibis 1y ago
    It was the standard business pattern of denying your competitors everything you can, unless it causes a third-party fuss.
    - mort96 1y ago
      I'm honestly not even sure it's about denying competitors anything. It feels more like denying their users. Apple has a long history of intently denying users the ability to do what they want LONG before any potential App Store competitors appeared.
- robenkleene 1y ago
  Note this is an iPhone app (noting because this thread seems to mainly be about macOS).
  - mort96 1y ago
    Notarization is the same for macOS and iOS AFAIK. Both platforms have a separate app store review process that's even more strict than the notarization process.
    - robenkleene 1y ago
      > Notarization is the same for macOS and iOS AFAIK. Assuming the basic facts are straight, the the linked story explicitly proves this is false: > UTM says Apple refused to notarize the app because of the violation of rule 4.7, as that is included in Notarization Review Guidelines. However, the App Review Guidelines page disagrees. It does not annotate rule 4.7 as being part of the Notarization Review Guidelines. Indeed, if you select the “Show Notarization Review Guidelines Only” toggle, rule 4.7 is greyed out as not being applicable. Rule 4.7 is App Review Guidelines for iOS, so this would be a case of failing notarization for iOS App Review Guidelines, which means the policies (and implementation) are different between platforms. (Of course there's no such thing as "Notarization Review Guidelines" so maybe this whole story is suspect, but rule 4.7 is the App Review Guidelines rule that prohibits emulators.)
      - mort96 1y ago
        The point is that notarization plays the same role for both platforms: checks whose purpose is to make sure that the software won't harm the user's device, unrelated to the App Store review process. Both platforms have an additional App Store review process which is significantly more strict, and the notarization process isn't supposed to involve App Store review for either platform. When Apple denies notarization for bullshit reasons on one platform, it makes me highly suspicious of their motivation for notarization on all platforms.
      - robenkleene 1y ago
        > Notarization Review Guidelines (a subset of the App Review Guidelines). Just noting I was wrong, Notarization Review Guidelines are referenced here https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/managing-alternative-distribution/submit-for-notarization/ https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/managing-...

by mort96 1y ago

Wasn't there even a story some time ago about how some completely legit, legal, above-board app to virtualize old (pre OS X) versions of Mac OS got rejected by Apple's notarization process?

makeitdouble 1y ago

Yes. Probably this story ? https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/19/iphone-pc-emulator-block-illegal/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/19/iphone-pc-emulator-block-ille...

raddan 1y ago
“UTM SE” is now on the App Store. Perhaps this was just a mistake? https://apps.apple.com/us/app/utm-se-retro-pc-emulator/id1564628856 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/utm-se-retro-pc-emulator/id156...
- immibis 1y ago
  It was the standard business pattern of denying your competitors everything you can, unless it causes a third-party fuss.
  - mort96 1y ago
    I'm honestly not even sure it's about denying competitors anything. It feels more like denying their users. Apple has a long history of intently denying users the ability to do what they want LONG before any potential App Store competitors appeared.
robenkleene 1y ago
Note this is an iPhone app (noting because this thread seems to mainly be about macOS).
- mort96 1y ago
  Notarization is the same for macOS and iOS AFAIK. Both platforms have a separate app store review process that's even more strict than the notarization process.
  - robenkleene 1y ago
    > Notarization is the same for macOS and iOS AFAIK. Assuming the basic facts are straight, the the linked story explicitly proves this is false: > UTM says Apple refused to notarize the app because of the violation of rule 4.7, as that is included in Notarization Review Guidelines. However, the App Review Guidelines page disagrees. It does not annotate rule 4.7 as being part of the Notarization Review Guidelines. Indeed, if you select the “Show Notarization Review Guidelines Only” toggle, rule 4.7 is greyed out as not being applicable. Rule 4.7 is App Review Guidelines for iOS, so this would be a case of failing notarization for iOS App Review Guidelines, which means the policies (and implementation) are different between platforms. (Of course there's no such thing as "Notarization Review Guidelines" so maybe this whole story is suspect, but rule 4.7 is the App Review Guidelines rule that prohibits emulators.)
    - mort96 1y ago
      The point is that notarization plays the same role for both platforms: checks whose purpose is to make sure that the software won't harm the user's device, unrelated to the App Store review process. Both platforms have an additional App Store review process which is significantly more strict, and the notarization process isn't supposed to involve App Store review for either platform. When Apple denies notarization for bullshit reasons on one platform, it makes me highly suspicious of their motivation for notarization on all platforms.
    - robenkleene 1y ago
      > Notarization Review Guidelines (a subset of the App Review Guidelines). Just noting I was wrong, Notarization Review Guidelines are referenced here https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/managing-alternative-distribution/submit-for-notarization/ https://developer.apple.com/help/app-store-connect/managing-...