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You can act quickly and decisively and also correctly. Take the average number of reports per day times the average length of a reported segment times two, divi

by franga2000 1y ago

You can act quickly and decisively and also correctly. Take the average number of reports per day times the average length of a reported segment times two, divide effective work hours per day by that number and hire that many people to process reports. Congrats, your average time to resolution is 24 hours. If that's too expensive, your platform is broken. You need to be able to process user reports. If you can't, rethink what you're doing.

mcherm 1y ago
Please explain what kind of magic your solution uses to ensure that reports always come in at a perfectly even pace without any peaks or valleys. Because without that, your proposed approach will not work.
- macintux 1y ago
  Perhaps the current process becomes the backlog management system. This isn’t an insurmountable problem, were the incentives in place.
StackRanker3000 1y ago
Not saying you’re wrong in this particular instance, but there are all sorts of areas where we accept that harm will occur at scale (e.g. that 40,000 people per year die in motor-vehicle incidents just in the US). How do we determine what is reasonable to expect?
- ethbr1 1y ago
  We require auto manufacturers to include certain safety features in their vehicles, to decrease deaths to a socially acceptable level. The central ill of centralized web platforms is that the US never mandated customer/content SLAs in regulation, even as their size necessitated that as a social good. (I.e. when they became 'too big for alternatives to be alternatives') It wouldn't be complicated: - If you're a platform (host user content) over X revenue... - You are required to achieve a minimum SLA for responsiveness - You are also required to hit minimum correctness / false positive targets - You are also required to implement and facilitate a third-party arbitration mechanism, by which a certified arbitrator (customer's choice) can process a dispute (also with SLAs for responsiveness) Google, Meta, Apple, Steam, Amazon, etc. could all be better, more effective platforms if they spent more time and money on resolution. As-is, they invest what current law requires, and we get the current situation.
intended 1y ago
It’s even worse when you think about what happens when it’s NOT English + NOT mainstream content. I really wish someone could tell me that either 1) Yes we can make a system that enables functional and effective customer support (because this is what this case is about) no matter the language 2) No we can’t because it’s fundamentally about manpower which can match the context with actual harm. Whatever I suspect, having any definitive answer to this decides how these problems need to eventually be solved. Which in turn tells us what we should ask and hope for.
- ethbr1 1y ago
  > a system that enables functional and effective customer support I'm not saying that it's humans, but it's humans. Augmented by technology, but the only currently viable arbitrator of human-generated edge cases is another human. If a platform can't afford to hire moderation resources to do the job effectively (read: skilled resources in enough quantity to make effective decisions), then it's not a viable business.
  - john01dav 1y ago
    > If a platform can't afford to hire moderation resources to do the job effectively (read: skilled resources in enough quantity to make effective decisions), then it's not a viable business. But, it is viable. Many profitable businesses exist that don't pay for this. One may instead mean that they want such businesses to be made non viable, in which case we should critically consider which business models that we might currently like other consequences of may be made non viable. For example, will users suddenly need to pay per post? If so, is that worth the trade-off?
    - ethbr1 1y ago
      Businesses that are profiting off un-paid-for externalities aren't socially sustainable businesses. They're just economic scams that happen to be legal. Imho, we should do what we can to make sure they're required to pay for those externalities. Then, they either figure out a way to do that profitably (great! innovation!) or they go under. But we shouldn't allow them to continue to profit by causing external ills.

mcherm 1y ago

Please explain what kind of magic your solution uses to ensure that reports always come in at a perfectly even pace without any peaks or valleys. Because without that, your proposed approach will not work.

macintux 1y ago
Perhaps the current process becomes the backlog management system. This isn’t an insurmountable problem, were the incentives in place.

StackRanker3000 1y ago

Not saying you’re wrong in this particular instance, but there are all sorts of areas where we accept that harm will occur at scale (e.g. that 40,000 people per year die in motor-vehicle incidents just in the US). How do we determine what is reasonable to expect?

ethbr1 1y ago
We require auto manufacturers to include certain safety features in their vehicles, to decrease deaths to a socially acceptable level. The central ill of centralized web platforms is that the US never mandated customer/content SLAs in regulation, even as their size necessitated that as a social good. (I.e. when they became 'too big for alternatives to be alternatives') It wouldn't be complicated: - If you're a platform (host user content) over X revenue... - You are required to achieve a minimum SLA for responsiveness - You are also required to hit minimum correctness / false positive targets - You are also required to implement and facilitate a third-party arbitration mechanism, by which a certified arbitrator (customer's choice) can process a dispute (also with SLAs for responsiveness) Google, Meta, Apple, Steam, Amazon, etc. could all be better, more effective platforms if they spent more time and money on resolution. As-is, they invest what current law requires, and we get the current situation.

intended 1y ago

It’s even worse when you think about what happens when it’s NOT English + NOT mainstream content. I really wish someone could tell me that either 1) Yes we can make a system that enables functional and effective customer support (because this is what this case is about) no matter the language 2) No we can’t because it’s fundamentally about manpower which can match the context with actual harm. Whatever I suspect, having any definitive answer to this decides how these problems need to eventually be solved. Which in turn tells us what we should ask and hope for.

ethbr1 1y ago
> a system that enables functional and effective customer support I'm not saying that it's humans, but it's humans. Augmented by technology, but the only currently viable arbitrator of human-generated edge cases is another human. If a platform can't afford to hire moderation resources to do the job effectively (read: skilled resources in enough quantity to make effective decisions), then it's not a viable business.
- john01dav 1y ago
  > If a platform can't afford to hire moderation resources to do the job effectively (read: skilled resources in enough quantity to make effective decisions), then it's not a viable business. But, it is viable. Many profitable businesses exist that don't pay for this. One may instead mean that they want such businesses to be made non viable, in which case we should critically consider which business models that we might currently like other consequences of may be made non viable. For example, will users suddenly need to pay per post? If so, is that worth the trade-off?
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    Businesses that are profiting off un-paid-for externalities aren't socially sustainable businesses. They're just economic scams that happen to be legal. Imho, we should do what we can to make sure they're required to pay for those externalities. Then, they either figure out a way to do that profitably (great! innovation!) or they go under. But we shouldn't allow them to continue to profit by causing external ills.