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Yes the keyboard layouts we have nowadays are actually suboptimal for touch typing, but nobody has ever managed to change them on a global scale. So why would

by tacker2000 11mo ago

Yes the keyboard layouts we have nowadays are actually suboptimal for touch typing, but nobody has ever managed to change them on a global scale. So why would one change the keyboard layouts just because somebody needs an arrow for programming? This is such a niche use case that it will never happen. Also many programmers will not want to use the unicode arrow instead of ->, thats a personal choice and nothing else. It would also be fatal to retrofit old languages like this since it would just create confusion for little benefit.

eviks 11mo ago
> This is such a niche use case that it will never happen. How do you square this with the simple fact that it has already happened? And just as simple of a forecast: it will continue to happen. > Also many programmers will not want to use the unicode arrow instead of ->, thats a personal choice and nothing else. So what? Other programmers will. But I don't get your general point - are you saying that the only change worth doing is the one that has happened globally in the past? Like, currently some popular languages support "unicode letter" for identifiers, which means it includes various nonsense like dead languages from thousands of years ago (but doesn't include much more used stuff just because the designers outsourced all their thinking to some Unicode Annex). Do you want to remove all that for consistenty with the fact that no one will ever use those symbols in function names? > It would also be fatal to retrofit old languages like this since it would just create confusion for little benefit. Could you link to the death certificate of the old language called C since this compiles despite no one having 𓀄𓀂 in their keyboard layout #include <stdio.h> int main() { int var𓀄𓀂 = 2; printf("%d\n", var𓀄𓀂 ); return 0; } Are you confused to death?
- tacker2000 11mo ago
  You are talking about changing arrows to unicode arrows. These arrow symbols are NOT identifiers but a specific syntax used in these C type languages, and then you give examples of identifiers being able to be specified in unicode. This is not the same thing, so i have to assume that you are confused here. Also, my point is that keyboard layouts are so ingrained that they will never change, and even if they change, it wouldnt be for some niche use like using unicode arrows.
  - eviks 11mo ago
    > This is not the same thing So what? How is that relevant to your argument about fatal confusion? Why is confusion in supporting var𓀄 ok, but confusion supporting → in addition to -> suddenly fatal??? > they will never change What's the point of this point, what does it address in this conversation? Who is talking about mandatory or even necessary global layout changes? Did you miss one of the alternatives I mentioned that allows changing nothing on your input side by letting your editor auto-substitute?

eviks 11mo ago

> This is such a niche use case that it will never happen. How do you square this with the simple fact that it has already happened? And just as simple of a forecast: it will continue to happen. > Also many programmers will not want to use the unicode arrow instead of ->, thats a personal choice and nothing else. So what? Other programmers will. But I don't get your general point - are you saying that the only change worth doing is the one that has happened globally in the past? Like, currently some popular languages support "unicode letter" for identifiers, which means it includes various nonsense like dead languages from thousands of years ago (but doesn't include much more used stuff just because the designers outsourced all their thinking to some Unicode Annex). Do you want to remove all that for consistenty with the fact that no one will ever use those symbols in function names? > It would also be fatal to retrofit old languages like this since it would just create confusion for little benefit. Could you link to the death certificate of the old language called C since this compiles despite no one having 𓀄𓀂 in their keyboard layout #include <stdio.h> int main() { int var𓀄𓀂 = 2; printf("%d\n", var𓀄𓀂 ); return 0; } Are you confused to death?

tacker2000 11mo ago
You are talking about changing arrows to unicode arrows. These arrow symbols are NOT identifiers but a specific syntax used in these C type languages, and then you give examples of identifiers being able to be specified in unicode. This is not the same thing, so i have to assume that you are confused here. Also, my point is that keyboard layouts are so ingrained that they will never change, and even if they change, it wouldnt be for some niche use like using unicode arrows.
- eviks 11mo ago
  > This is not the same thing So what? How is that relevant to your argument about fatal confusion? Why is confusion in supporting var𓀄 ok, but confusion supporting → in addition to -> suddenly fatal??? > they will never change What's the point of this point, what does it address in this conversation? Who is talking about mandatory or even necessary global layout changes? Did you miss one of the alternatives I mentioned that allows changing nothing on your input side by letting your editor auto-substitute?