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The support of Israel relies on two things: the Holocaust and the old Testament.

andsoitis 11mo ago
> The support of Israel relies on two things: the Holocaust and the old Testament. Come on. Geopolitically, Israel is an important pillar. The V-Dem Democracy indices ranked in 2024 Iraq, Israel, Mauritania and Tunisia as the Middle Eastern and North African countries with the highest democracy scores. The Economist Group's Democracy Index rated in the region Israel as the only "flawed democracy" and no country as "full democracy" for year 2023. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_the_Middle_East_and_North_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_the_Middle_East_a...
- School-Cotton 11mo ago
  Does it matter? A country being allied with the US seems to have little to do with whether it's a democracy, see e.g. Taiwan and South Korea during the dictatorship period, or Saudi Arabia now.
- shermozle 11mo ago
  This "only democracy in the region" line gets trotted out, but most Palestinians don't get a vote in the government that controls their lives. So "democracy" in the sense that Apartheid South Africa was a democracy, only.
  - xenospn 11mo ago
    Are you referring to the West Bank or Gaza? Because they’re both not part of Israel. Palestinians in Israel absolutely vote and have their own representatives in government.
    - School-Cotton 11mo ago
      If you arbitrarily define parts of the territory you control as not part of your territory, and its population as not your citizens (even though they are entirely subject to your jurisdiction), then you only get partial credit for being a “democracy”, at best. If Israel were really committed to democratic ideals, they would either make all Palestinians equal citizens of the state (currently Israel, which would presumably be renamed “Palestine” the next day), or, more realistically, they would allow the Palestinian Territories to become an independent state, rather than keeping them permanently occupied and subject to Israeli military law.
      - CLPadvocate 11mo ago
        this is exactly what other countries do since ages - US, UK, France - just to name a few - they all have territories under their control, but not integrated into the state itself, with population having different, but usually lesser rights than the population of the state proper. on the other hand, the situation in so-called palestinian territories is completely different. Gaza strip was officially annexed by Egypt, West Bank was officially annexed by Jordan - so the official government would be these countries, and if we're talking about Apartheid, then it would be committed by these countries.
    - shermozle 11mo ago
      "Both not part of Israel" and yet the people who allegedly own it don't control it.
      - CLPadvocate 11mo ago
        they don't even want it - because otherwise you can't play the victim card and blame jews for everything. their entire "economy" is based on that.
raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
Actually it’s the New Testament. Evangelicals believe that if Isreal doesn’t exist, Jesus won’t have a place to come back to when the rapture happens.
- rsyring 11mo ago
  That's an absurdly blanket statement to make about what evangelicals believe. Some may believe that, but there is an incredibly wide spectrum of beliefs even amongst evangelicals about end times events and the role Israel plays.
  - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
    I am glad to hear that some evangelicals have much more reasonable beliefs about the end times and Jesus born of virgin, died and rose three days later is coming back… (note sarcasm).
yndoendo 11mo ago
I just finished _Culture In Nazi Germany_ by Michael H. Kater. [0] Near the end it goes into percentages of which counties Jews moved to and why during their immigration. A good portion of the UK was antisemitic, along with a number of other countries, and didn't want them moving to their country. UK colonized part of Palestine at the time and pushed Jews to move there. Only the most devoted that wanted to be closer to their religious holy land went because the only work at the time was farming. Ones that wanted to maintain living off their crafts; acting, music, writing moved else where. UK's antisemitic view actually help create Israel and push for the Zionist movement. One of the most surprising aspects is that a number of Jewish immigrants actually supported fascism and told themself that it just was not implemented right. It wasn't until the 1960s when the views changed to fascism is bad. Warning, the book is very dry and goes into detail of what happened to famous actors, writers, and musicians. [0] https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300253375/culture-in-nazi-germany/ https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300253375/culture-in-naz...
- tguvot 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - yndoendo 11mo ago
    UK did colonize Palestine and rejected the indigenous populous. They didn't take over by direct conquer like others. [0] 1939 was during the War period not before. Immigrating out of German started in the early 1930s. Nazis were in power in the 1920s, not fully. It was around 1928 they started the Culture Wars against ideas and works they deemed Modern, like Jazz. As the book states, the UK was pushing for them to immigrate there instead of their main Island because of antisemitic views. [1] [2] The author actually traveled and talked to number of celebrities that lived during that time period. Even asking the Nazi era actors if they thought their careers would of took off if fascism never took hold and removed their competition. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_ga... [1] https://www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk/oms/jewish-refuge-and-the-nazi-regime https://www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk/oms/jewish-refuge-and-t... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

> The support of Israel relies on two things: the Holocaust and the old Testament. Come on. Geopolitically, Israel is an important pillar. The V-Dem Democracy indices ranked in 2024 Iraq, Israel, Mauritania and Tunisia as the Middle Eastern and North African countries with the highest democracy scores. The Economist Group's Democracy Index rated in the region Israel as the only "flawed democracy" and no country as "full democracy" for year 2023. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_the_Middle_East_and_North_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_the_Middle_East_a...

School-Cotton 11mo ago
Does it matter? A country being allied with the US seems to have little to do with whether it's a democracy, see e.g. Taiwan and South Korea during the dictatorship period, or Saudi Arabia now.
shermozle 11mo ago
This "only democracy in the region" line gets trotted out, but most Palestinians don't get a vote in the government that controls their lives. So "democracy" in the sense that Apartheid South Africa was a democracy, only.
- xenospn 11mo ago
  Are you referring to the West Bank or Gaza? Because they’re both not part of Israel. Palestinians in Israel absolutely vote and have their own representatives in government.
  - School-Cotton 11mo ago
    If you arbitrarily define parts of the territory you control as not part of your territory, and its population as not your citizens (even though they are entirely subject to your jurisdiction), then you only get partial credit for being a “democracy”, at best. If Israel were really committed to democratic ideals, they would either make all Palestinians equal citizens of the state (currently Israel, which would presumably be renamed “Palestine” the next day), or, more realistically, they would allow the Palestinian Territories to become an independent state, rather than keeping them permanently occupied and subject to Israeli military law.
    - CLPadvocate 11mo ago
      this is exactly what other countries do since ages - US, UK, France - just to name a few - they all have territories under their control, but not integrated into the state itself, with population having different, but usually lesser rights than the population of the state proper. on the other hand, the situation in so-called palestinian territories is completely different. Gaza strip was officially annexed by Egypt, West Bank was officially annexed by Jordan - so the official government would be these countries, and if we're talking about Apartheid, then it would be committed by these countries.
  - shermozle 11mo ago
    "Both not part of Israel" and yet the people who allegedly own it don't control it.
    - CLPadvocate 11mo ago
      they don't even want it - because otherwise you can't play the victim card and blame jews for everything. their entire "economy" is based on that.

raw_anon_1111 11mo ago

Actually it’s the New Testament. Evangelicals believe that if Isreal doesn’t exist, Jesus won’t have a place to come back to when the rapture happens.

rsyring 11mo ago
That's an absurdly blanket statement to make about what evangelicals believe. Some may believe that, but there is an incredibly wide spectrum of beliefs even amongst evangelicals about end times events and the role Israel plays.
- raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
  I am glad to hear that some evangelicals have much more reasonable beliefs about the end times and Jesus born of virgin, died and rose three days later is coming back… (note sarcasm).

yndoendo 11mo ago

I just finished _Culture In Nazi Germany_ by Michael H. Kater. [0] Near the end it goes into percentages of which counties Jews moved to and why during their immigration. A good portion of the UK was antisemitic, along with a number of other countries, and didn't want them moving to their country. UK colonized part of Palestine at the time and pushed Jews to move there. Only the most devoted that wanted to be closer to their religious holy land went because the only work at the time was farming. Ones that wanted to maintain living off their crafts; acting, music, writing moved else where. UK's antisemitic view actually help create Israel and push for the Zionist movement. One of the most surprising aspects is that a number of Jewish immigrants actually supported fascism and told themself that it just was not implemented right. It wasn't until the 1960s when the views changed to fascism is bad. Warning, the book is very dry and goes into detail of what happened to famous actors, writers, and musicians. [0] https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300253375/culture-in-nazi-germany/ https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300253375/culture-in-naz...

tguvot 11mo ago
[flagged]
- yndoendo 11mo ago
  UK did colonize Palestine and rejected the indigenous populous. They didn't take over by direct conquer like others. [0] 1939 was during the War period not before. Immigrating out of German started in the early 1930s. Nazis were in power in the 1920s, not fully. It was around 1928 they started the Culture Wars against ideas and works they deemed Modern, like Jazz. As the book states, the UK was pushing for them to immigrate there instead of their main Island because of antisemitic views. [1] [2] The author actually traveled and talked to number of celebrities that lived during that time period. Even asking the Nazi era actors if they thought their careers would of took off if fascism never took hold and removed their competition. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_ga... [1] https://www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk/oms/jewish-refuge-and-the-nazi-regime https://www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk/oms/jewish-refuge-and-t... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement