4 ms·

Because no amount of profit is ever enough for the stock market, everything must perpetually grow.

fn-mote 1y ago
That’s a very reductionist take on what happened here. I don’t think increased profit is likely to result from these firings. How would it?
- saubeidl 1y ago
  Profit = revenue - expenses. Firings reduce expenses, the equation above explains the rest. Of course, that's only in the short term, but that's what exec bonuses are given out on!
- wahnfrieden 1y ago
  Firings in this case were for union busting. Illegal union busting is profitable - that's why business owners do it. Because it's illegal, they will make up a different excuse for why the workers were fired. They will never admit to illegal union busting. So you should not take their statements as good faith.
- zaptheimpaler 1y ago
  It may sound simplistic but its the truth and there are plenty of other examples and history around this - Starbucks recently. 30 employees unionizing may not have any significant impact on their profits, but if they let that union grow it would have a lot more members demanding better working hours or wages over time. A strong union also generally leads to a loss of control by management where they have to negotiate more with workers which they don't like. Why do you think they were fired?
appreciatorBus 1y ago
This is also true if humans in general, at all stations in life, including union members and union leaders. Is there any offer a union would refuse on the grounds that’s too much?
- tclancy 1y ago
  Is that true? Feels like you are begging a huge question and also assuming everyone has to exist in a capitalist society forever.
  - appreciatorBus 1y ago
    It will still be true under not-capitalism. Perhaps it won’t be measured with money but it will exist.
- ineptech 1y ago
  People like getting more money, but they don't die without it. You can get a job that pays just enough to pay your bills and work at it until you die. Companies can't do that under capitalism. They take on debt and require growth to pay back their investors, or they don't take on debt and get undercut by a competitor who does.
t-writescode 1y ago
And yet Costco still does just fine.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  Costco might not be your intended example. It has amazing revenue growth: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/revenue https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/revenu... While simultaneously growing profit margin: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/profit... Hence growing annual net income from $2.3B to $8B in the last 10 years.
  - castwide 1y ago
    I imagine the GP was referring to the fact that Costco experiences that kind of growth while giving their employees excellent pay and benefits. Even low-level store employees typically make $20-30 an hour.
    - t-writescode 1y ago
      Correct
    - Draiken 1y ago
      If only we had more of this. Why is it so rare? Do they have a benevolent dictator? Is this a temporary glitch that will be "corrected" when profits aren't looking as good? Are they a monopoly? I'm genuinely curious.
      - lotsofpulp 1y ago
        It’s because they don’t sell everything, and the things they do sell, they sell to the top 50%. They also did have benevolent dictators who spent decades building up good will, but supposedly the new bosses as of a few years ago are not so benevolent anymore.

That’s a very reductionist take on what happened here. I don’t think increased profit is likely to result from these firings. How would it?

saubeidl 1y ago
Profit = revenue - expenses. Firings reduce expenses, the equation above explains the rest. Of course, that's only in the short term, but that's what exec bonuses are given out on!
wahnfrieden 1y ago
Firings in this case were for union busting. Illegal union busting is profitable - that's why business owners do it. Because it's illegal, they will make up a different excuse for why the workers were fired. They will never admit to illegal union busting. So you should not take their statements as good faith.
zaptheimpaler 1y ago
It may sound simplistic but its the truth and there are plenty of other examples and history around this - Starbucks recently. 30 employees unionizing may not have any significant impact on their profits, but if they let that union grow it would have a lot more members demanding better working hours or wages over time. A strong union also generally leads to a loss of control by management where they have to negotiate more with workers which they don't like. Why do you think they were fired?

appreciatorBus 1y ago

This is also true if humans in general, at all stations in life, including union members and union leaders. Is there any offer a union would refuse on the grounds that’s too much?

tclancy 1y ago
Is that true? Feels like you are begging a huge question and also assuming everyone has to exist in a capitalist society forever.
- appreciatorBus 1y ago
  It will still be true under not-capitalism. Perhaps it won’t be measured with money but it will exist.
ineptech 1y ago
People like getting more money, but they don't die without it. You can get a job that pays just enough to pay your bills and work at it until you die. Companies can't do that under capitalism. They take on debt and require growth to pay back their investors, or they don't take on debt and get undercut by a competitor who does.

t-writescode 1y ago

And yet Costco still does just fine.

lotsofpulp 1y ago
Costco might not be your intended example. It has amazing revenue growth: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/revenue https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/revenu... While simultaneously growing profit margin: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/profit... Hence growing annual net income from $2.3B to $8B in the last 10 years.
- castwide 1y ago
  I imagine the GP was referring to the fact that Costco experiences that kind of growth while giving their employees excellent pay and benefits. Even low-level store employees typically make $20-30 an hour.
  - t-writescode 1y ago
    Correct
  - Draiken 1y ago
    If only we had more of this. Why is it so rare? Do they have a benevolent dictator? Is this a temporary glitch that will be "corrected" when profits aren't looking as good? Are they a monopoly? I'm genuinely curious.
    - lotsofpulp 1y ago
      It’s because they don’t sell everything, and the things they do sell, they sell to the top 50%. They also did have benevolent dictators who spent decades building up good will, but supposedly the new bosses as of a few years ago are not so benevolent anymore.