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At 45, this is something that scares me about using AI to write code for me. I view my job not just as a rewarding problem-solving challenge, but also as a vita

At 45, this is something that scares me about using AI to write code for me. I view my job not just as a rewarding problem-solving challenge, but also as a vital form of exercise, possibly the only thing in my life that unites my creative brain with my mathematical brain and forces them to work together. I've watched so many family members descend into alzheimers and dementia. My father, who's 89, still reads two newspapers a day, and I think it keeps him sharper than he would be otherwise. But without the goal of solving problems, I think we begin to degenerate. And no one really wants to deal with problems... it's the job that keeps you fit.

layman51 1y ago
Do you have any opinion on rote work, for example data entry, or stuff like scanning the incoming checks or mail for a small office, filing papers, etc.? I sometimes worry that this type of work isn't as much of a brain challenge, but maybe there are some people who don't mind it so much because it gives them time to think.
- noduerme 1y ago
  Actually, I think rote work is quite good too. Problem-solving on a high level is obviously engaging some part of your brain that rote work doesn't engage, but simply reading / writing / doing maths, even the simple fact of having work to do keeps one from vegetating. Thinking about other things while you're doing it is a bonus. I wouldn't put manual labor into this category, though. I've got a minor obsession with reading memoirs by people who've survived extreme situations like polar expeditions, trench warfare, captivity, torture, etc. (Probably all started when I read Robinson Crusoe). All their stories seem to congregate around the idea that having to something to do with your mind is crucial to survival, even if it is somewhat rote.
utopiah 1y ago
> no one really wants to deal with problems... it's the job that keeps you fit. Is it though? "it is estimated that the number of Chess players is about 800 million globally." according to https://www.chessjournal.com/how-many-chess-players-are-there/ https://www.chessjournal.com/how-many-chess-players-are-ther... I've read ~600M for Mahjong, CS/PUBG/etc right now tally up to few millions on Steam via https://steamcharts.com https://steamcharts.com etc. So I think just with famous games we can see that billions of people love to "deal with problems". Games by definition are problems we love to solve. They can be solo, duel, last one standing, 2 teams, N teams, synchronous, asynchronous, turn by turn, etc. This makes me think on the contrary we are addicted to solving problems. The question then IMHO is more... what are the right problems for you? How do you keep on being challenged just the right way?
- noduerme 1y ago
  I suspect that very few of those 800 million chess players get paid to play chess all day every day as a job. More likely, it's an occasional hobby in their free time, which is great. Even at that, they only represent 10% of the 8 billion people on earth, which suggests that it's a small minority of people who actually care about solving puzzles. And of those, an even smaller number actually apply those skills to do it for a living. What I'm trying to say is that if I were no longer paid to write code I might just end up with hobbies that occasionally stimulated my mind as opposed to having to constantly engage that muscle. Motivation makes a big difference, because even for those of us who compulsively solve puzzles there is plenty of time for ennui.
tim333 1y ago
>it's the job that keeps you fit I'm not so sure. I think cause and effect might be otherwise - either you quit working when you go gaga, or both are a function of age. Certainly my relatives stayed sharp after retiring but often went a bit demented around 85-90. There's evidence at least some dementia is related to infections which may be easier to fix than other things. (as in https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/dec/01/the-brain-microbiome-could-understanding-it-help-prevent-dementia https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/dec/01/the-bra...)
RyanOD 1y ago
I think this way about playing the piano. I'm primarily a guitarist so the piano is a bit of a challenge for me. I use it as a way to force my memory to think in challenging ways and commit complex content.
- noduerme 1y ago
  Totally. I'm a piano player. With piano, it feels easy because I started at three years old. But with guitar, I have to really challenge myself the way you're describing. Especially, I bought a pedal steel slide a few years ago. It's a "basic" one with 3 pedals, 12 strings, 2 knee levers, but still the most complicated musical instrument I've ever met. Playing it is the closest feeling I get to being really in the flow when writing code. If I had to define this feeling, I hate to use this term, but it's like a really fast REPL as you play, where you're trying to inject your creativity but also mathematically translate what you're about to do into four different limbs at the same time. It's way harder than piano, to my brain. But also deeply satisfying because it's not a reflex, it requires constant thought. Maybe if it ever became a series of reflexes, I would have to move on to an even more complicated instrument? On a side note, learning a new language is an amazing way to keep your brain active too. And learning a new instrument is a lot like learning a new language.
asdfman123 1y ago
Read books, learn instruments. Lots of things use your brain that you can do.

layman51 1y ago

Do you have any opinion on rote work, for example data entry, or stuff like scanning the incoming checks or mail for a small office, filing papers, etc.? I sometimes worry that this type of work isn't as much of a brain challenge, but maybe there are some people who don't mind it so much because it gives them time to think.

noduerme 1y ago
Actually, I think rote work is quite good too. Problem-solving on a high level is obviously engaging some part of your brain that rote work doesn't engage, but simply reading / writing / doing maths, even the simple fact of having work to do keeps one from vegetating. Thinking about other things while you're doing it is a bonus. I wouldn't put manual labor into this category, though. I've got a minor obsession with reading memoirs by people who've survived extreme situations like polar expeditions, trench warfare, captivity, torture, etc. (Probably all started when I read Robinson Crusoe). All their stories seem to congregate around the idea that having to something to do with your mind is crucial to survival, even if it is somewhat rote.

utopiah 1y ago

> no one really wants to deal with problems... it's the job that keeps you fit. Is it though? "it is estimated that the number of Chess players is about 800 million globally." according to https://www.chessjournal.com/how-many-chess-players-are-there/ https://www.chessjournal.com/how-many-chess-players-are-ther... I've read ~600M for Mahjong, CS/PUBG/etc right now tally up to few millions on Steam via https://steamcharts.com https://steamcharts.com etc. So I think just with famous games we can see that billions of people love to "deal with problems". Games by definition are problems we love to solve. They can be solo, duel, last one standing, 2 teams, N teams, synchronous, asynchronous, turn by turn, etc. This makes me think on the contrary we are addicted to solving problems. The question then IMHO is more... what are the right problems for you? How do you keep on being challenged just the right way?

noduerme 1y ago
I suspect that very few of those 800 million chess players get paid to play chess all day every day as a job. More likely, it's an occasional hobby in their free time, which is great. Even at that, they only represent 10% of the 8 billion people on earth, which suggests that it's a small minority of people who actually care about solving puzzles. And of those, an even smaller number actually apply those skills to do it for a living. What I'm trying to say is that if I were no longer paid to write code I might just end up with hobbies that occasionally stimulated my mind as opposed to having to constantly engage that muscle. Motivation makes a big difference, because even for those of us who compulsively solve puzzles there is plenty of time for ennui.

tim333 1y ago

>it's the job that keeps you fit I'm not so sure. I think cause and effect might be otherwise - either you quit working when you go gaga, or both are a function of age. Certainly my relatives stayed sharp after retiring but often went a bit demented around 85-90. There's evidence at least some dementia is related to infections which may be easier to fix than other things. (as in https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/dec/01/the-brain-microbiome-could-understanding-it-help-prevent-dementia https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/dec/01/the-bra...)

RyanOD 1y ago

I think this way about playing the piano. I'm primarily a guitarist so the piano is a bit of a challenge for me. I use it as a way to force my memory to think in challenging ways and commit complex content.

noduerme 1y ago
Totally. I'm a piano player. With piano, it feels easy because I started at three years old. But with guitar, I have to really challenge myself the way you're describing. Especially, I bought a pedal steel slide a few years ago. It's a "basic" one with 3 pedals, 12 strings, 2 knee levers, but still the most complicated musical instrument I've ever met. Playing it is the closest feeling I get to being really in the flow when writing code. If I had to define this feeling, I hate to use this term, but it's like a really fast REPL as you play, where you're trying to inject your creativity but also mathematically translate what you're about to do into four different limbs at the same time. It's way harder than piano, to my brain. But also deeply satisfying because it's not a reflex, it requires constant thought. Maybe if it ever became a series of reflexes, I would have to move on to an even more complicated instrument? On a side note, learning a new language is an amazing way to keep your brain active too. And learning a new instrument is a lot like learning a new language.

asdfman123 1y ago

Read books, learn instruments. Lots of things use your brain that you can do.