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Police in the US as they're trained are a cancer on society as a whole. Prosecutors are afraid of prosecuting them as they are -- normal citizens. They deserve

by p_ing 1y ago

Police in the US as they're trained are a cancer on society as a whole. Prosecutors are afraid of prosecuting them as they are -- normal citizens. They deserve nor have any special rights under the law (there are two classes of people, civilians and military -- they're not military). When an officer attempts to murder a civilian, they should face attempted murder charges. When an officer kills a pet, he should face a destruction of property charge. Unfortunately this rarely happens. Anyone should be able to exercise their human rights and resists so-called officers of the law where possible up to and including deadly force.

mmooss 1y ago
> Police in the US as they're trained are a cancer on society as a whole. I think you are way overstating it. It's hard to imagine society without police, and I've encountered many good, effective police. > there are two classes of people, civilians and military -- they're not military ???!!!! Do you think people in the military have different or special rights?
- p_ing 1y ago
  > It's hard to imagine society without police, and I've encountered many good, effective police. Agreed, and that's not what we have. We have an overly aggressive, fearful, and self-protective/self-interested police force. Not one for the 'good of the people'. > Do you think people in the military have different or special rights? Yes, there are two classes of people in the US -- civilians and military. You're one of two, not that individuals in the military can violate civilian law, but they're beholden to their own laws (UCMJ) separate from civilians. Along with limits on their rights that they would otherwise have under the US Constitution.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    > there are two classes of people in the US Where do you get that? > they're beholden to their own laws (UCMJ) separate from civilians People in the US military have the same obligations as everyone else to the laws of the federal, state, and local governments where they are. Stockbrokers are subject to SEC regulations; lawyers are subject to legal rules, such as attorney-client privelege, etc. That doesn't make them separate classes of people.
    - p_ing 1y ago
      You should have read the rest of my comment -- whoo boy it would have cut your comment down to zero words. UCMJ doesn't apply to any civilian. SEC rules, etc. apply to all civilians whether or not you're engaged in SEC-related activity.
      - dragonwriter 1y ago
        > UCMJ doesn't apply to any civilian. False. It applies “In time of declared war or a contingency operation” to civilians “serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field”, 10 USC § 802(a)(10). This was one of several “gap-filling” changes to US federal law adopted to address problems with effectively holding contractors and others associated with the military accountable for crimes overseas in the '00s (among the others was the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000, which extended federal civilian criminal jurisdiction over certain offenses committed outside the United States that did not previously have extraterritorial application, when the offender was either a civilian accompanying the US military in certain capacities or a former military member subject to the UCMJ at the time of the act but not at the time of prosecution.) See, related, this DoD memo (hosted at DoJ) on the subject: https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-hrsp/legacy/2011/02/04/03-10-08dod-ucmj.pdf https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-hrsp/le...
      - mmooss 1y ago
        > SEC rules, etc. apply to all civilians whether or not you're engaged in SEC-related activity. There are professional rules that do not apply to non-professionals, including SEC rules. For example, lawyers can't give advice in many situations - their free speech is curtailed. Doctors and other healthcare professionals, in some places, are excluded from the 'good Samaritan' exception to injuring someone (i.e., if you find someone injured and try to help, and accidentally cause more harm, you can't be prosecuted).
        dragonwriter 1y ago
        > There are professional rules that do not apply to non-professionals, including SEC rules. For example, lawyers can't give advice in many situations For giving legal advice, that's mostly backwards (in most US jurisdictions); its generally illegal for anyone other than a licensed lawyer to do what is legally considered giving legal advice (this is one of many things that constitutes unauthorized practice of law), whereas for a lawyer they are allowed to within certain ethical bounds.
- jrflowers 1y ago
  > I think you are way overstating it I recommend this excerpt from an excellent book (which I also recommend if you find the article interesting) https://www.vice.com/en/article/end-of-policing-book-extract/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/end-of-policing-book-extract...

by p_ing 1y ago

mmooss 1y ago

> Police in the US as they're trained are a cancer on society as a whole. I think you are way overstating it. It's hard to imagine society without police, and I've encountered many good, effective police. > there are two classes of people, civilians and military -- they're not military ???!!!! Do you think people in the military have different or special rights?

p_ing 1y ago
> It's hard to imagine society without police, and I've encountered many good, effective police. Agreed, and that's not what we have. We have an overly aggressive, fearful, and self-protective/self-interested police force. Not one for the 'good of the people'. > Do you think people in the military have different or special rights? Yes, there are two classes of people in the US -- civilians and military. You're one of two, not that individuals in the military can violate civilian law, but they're beholden to their own laws (UCMJ) separate from civilians. Along with limits on their rights that they would otherwise have under the US Constitution.
- mmooss 1y ago
  > there are two classes of people in the US Where do you get that? > they're beholden to their own laws (UCMJ) separate from civilians People in the US military have the same obligations as everyone else to the laws of the federal, state, and local governments where they are. Stockbrokers are subject to SEC regulations; lawyers are subject to legal rules, such as attorney-client privelege, etc. That doesn't make them separate classes of people.
  - p_ing 1y ago
    You should have read the rest of my comment -- whoo boy it would have cut your comment down to zero words. UCMJ doesn't apply to any civilian. SEC rules, etc. apply to all civilians whether or not you're engaged in SEC-related activity.
    - dragonwriter 1y ago
      > UCMJ doesn't apply to any civilian. False. It applies “In time of declared war or a contingency operation” to civilians “serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field”, 10 USC § 802(a)(10). This was one of several “gap-filling” changes to US federal law adopted to address problems with effectively holding contractors and others associated with the military accountable for crimes overseas in the '00s (among the others was the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000, which extended federal civilian criminal jurisdiction over certain offenses committed outside the United States that did not previously have extraterritorial application, when the offender was either a civilian accompanying the US military in certain capacities or a former military member subject to the UCMJ at the time of the act but not at the time of prosecution.) See, related, this DoD memo (hosted at DoJ) on the subject: https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-hrsp/legacy/2011/02/04/03-10-08dod-ucmj.pdf https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-hrsp/le...
    - mmooss 1y ago
      > SEC rules, etc. apply to all civilians whether or not you're engaged in SEC-related activity. There are professional rules that do not apply to non-professionals, including SEC rules. For example, lawyers can't give advice in many situations - their free speech is curtailed. Doctors and other healthcare professionals, in some places, are excluded from the 'good Samaritan' exception to injuring someone (i.e., if you find someone injured and try to help, and accidentally cause more harm, you can't be prosecuted).
      - dragonwriter 1y ago
        > There are professional rules that do not apply to non-professionals, including SEC rules. For example, lawyers can't give advice in many situations For giving legal advice, that's mostly backwards (in most US jurisdictions); its generally illegal for anyone other than a licensed lawyer to do what is legally considered giving legal advice (this is one of many things that constitutes unauthorized practice of law), whereas for a lawyer they are allowed to within certain ethical bounds.
jrflowers 1y ago
> I think you are way overstating it I recommend this excerpt from an excellent book (which I also recommend if you find the article interesting) https://www.vice.com/en/article/end-of-policing-book-extract/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/end-of-policing-book-extract...