5 ms·

An attack on a cop is an attack on the state. You sure have a right to revolution but you better succeed, cause state has the right to imprison you.

malfist 1y ago
I hardly think throwing a sandwich at someone is an attempted revolution
- jojobas 1y ago
  It's still an infringement against the state, not just a random man, and strictly punishment is in order. You can't allow anything getting thrown at cops on duty without repercussions.
  - cogman10 1y ago
    Not according to a Jury of peers. The entire reason we have trial by jury is to dull the power of the state when it acts like this ICE officer and prosecutor did. This "attack" was about as close to non-violent protest as you can get. Taking someone to court was only done because the ICE kidnapper had his fee fees hurt.
    - mmooss 1y ago
      It was in court because the White House wants to demonstrate extreme aggression. I wonder how the officer felt about testifying - did they have a choice? (They are still responsible for their actions, of course.)
    - jojobas 1y ago
      The jury decided there was no attack, not that attacking cops is fair game.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    > It's still an infringement against the state, not just a random man, and strictly punishment is in order. Why is the state so special? The USA's foundational value is individual liberty, not state authority.
    - jojobas 1y ago
      The state is the individuals' collective will to, among other things, put criminals in prison. You sure can campaign, protest and what not, but if you're going to interfere with said collective will you better go all out and win, or else you'll be behind bars or in the ground.
      - malfist 1y ago
        Tell me, on this specific night, what specific crimes were this specific state agent, prevented from arresting by having a sandwich thrown at them? I'll do you a favor, let's broaden the search criteria. Can you provide a single example of a cop anywhere being unable to arrest a criminal because a bystander threw a sandwich at them?
        jojobas 1y ago
        Illegal immigration. Whether the cops should be tolerating carrying out their duties under a sandwich shower is left as an exerciser to the reader.
      - mmooss 1y ago
        Again, that's backward. In the US and in free societies generally, it is the individual, not the collective will that is the priority and is supreme. Specifically, the individual is free to do as the think best regardless of the collective will - almost the definition of 'freedom' - unless they are causing significant harm to other individuals. Each person is entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and governments exist (not to exercise the collective will but) to protect those rights.
  - fzeroracer 1y ago
    In a functional country, the police and law enforcement are there to serve the people, not that the people are to serve them. That means holding law enforcement up to a higher standard than your average person and understanding that throwing a sandwich at them does not constitute assault or bodily harm.
    - jojobas 1y ago
      People don't get to choose how they are served outside elections, you can't tell the cops you don't want this or that crime to slide and expect him to go away. Cops absolutely should be held to higher standards (I find cops transgressing being done for common assault, rather than like abuse of office, appalling). At the same time, a cop on duty is inviolable, unless you're really sure he's transgressing (which this one was not).
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > It's still an infringement against the state Infringement of what? > You can't allow anything getting thrown at cops on duty without repercussions. You absolutely can, and of the thing involved was neither intended to—nor raised reasonable fear of, nor did, nor had any meaningful likelihood to—cause injury to the officer, I can’t see any overwhelming reason you shouldn’t, either. I suppose I could see a case for civil liability for reasonable and necessary cleaning costs directly attributable to the sandwich, but beyond that...
UncleMeat 1y ago
The state is made of the people. When ICE tear gasses two year olds, that seems like a much more worrisome attack on the state.

malfist 1y ago

I hardly think throwing a sandwich at someone is an attempted revolution

jojobas 1y ago
It's still an infringement against the state, not just a random man, and strictly punishment is in order. You can't allow anything getting thrown at cops on duty without repercussions.
- cogman10 1y ago
  Not according to a Jury of peers. The entire reason we have trial by jury is to dull the power of the state when it acts like this ICE officer and prosecutor did. This "attack" was about as close to non-violent protest as you can get. Taking someone to court was only done because the ICE kidnapper had his fee fees hurt.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    It was in court because the White House wants to demonstrate extreme aggression. I wonder how the officer felt about testifying - did they have a choice? (They are still responsible for their actions, of course.)
  - jojobas 1y ago
    The jury decided there was no attack, not that attacking cops is fair game.
- mmooss 1y ago
  > It's still an infringement against the state, not just a random man, and strictly punishment is in order. Why is the state so special? The USA's foundational value is individual liberty, not state authority.
  - jojobas 1y ago
    The state is the individuals' collective will to, among other things, put criminals in prison. You sure can campaign, protest and what not, but if you're going to interfere with said collective will you better go all out and win, or else you'll be behind bars or in the ground.
    - malfist 1y ago
      Tell me, on this specific night, what specific crimes were this specific state agent, prevented from arresting by having a sandwich thrown at them? I'll do you a favor, let's broaden the search criteria. Can you provide a single example of a cop anywhere being unable to arrest a criminal because a bystander threw a sandwich at them?
      - jojobas 1y ago
        Illegal immigration. Whether the cops should be tolerating carrying out their duties under a sandwich shower is left as an exerciser to the reader.
    - mmooss 1y ago
      Again, that's backward. In the US and in free societies generally, it is the individual, not the collective will that is the priority and is supreme. Specifically, the individual is free to do as the think best regardless of the collective will - almost the definition of 'freedom' - unless they are causing significant harm to other individuals. Each person is entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and governments exist (not to exercise the collective will but) to protect those rights.
- fzeroracer 1y ago
  In a functional country, the police and law enforcement are there to serve the people, not that the people are to serve them. That means holding law enforcement up to a higher standard than your average person and understanding that throwing a sandwich at them does not constitute assault or bodily harm.
  - jojobas 1y ago
    People don't get to choose how they are served outside elections, you can't tell the cops you don't want this or that crime to slide and expect him to go away. Cops absolutely should be held to higher standards (I find cops transgressing being done for common assault, rather than like abuse of office, appalling). At the same time, a cop on duty is inviolable, unless you're really sure he's transgressing (which this one was not).
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > It's still an infringement against the state Infringement of what? > You can't allow anything getting thrown at cops on duty without repercussions. You absolutely can, and of the thing involved was neither intended to—nor raised reasonable fear of, nor did, nor had any meaningful likelihood to—cause injury to the officer, I can’t see any overwhelming reason you shouldn’t, either. I suppose I could see a case for civil liability for reasonable and necessary cleaning costs directly attributable to the sandwich, but beyond that...

UncleMeat 1y ago

The state is made of the people. When ICE tear gasses two year olds, that seems like a much more worrisome attack on the state.