3 ms·

Weird. I just tried it and it fails when I ask: "Tell me about the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre".

by andrewinardeer 1y ago

Philpax 1y ago
yes yes Chinese models have Chinese censorship, we don't need to belabour this point every time
- poszlem 1y ago
  No, we need to belabour it every time.
  - nickthegreek 1y ago
    100% agree with you. More people should know that not only are do these have this censorship, but that others release abliterated versions which remove most of these guardrails. https://huggingface.co/blog/mlabonne/abliteration https://huggingface.co/blog/mlabonne/abliteration
- sabatonfan 1y ago
  Use american models to prevent chinese censorship And chinese models to prevent american censorship (if any, I think there might be but not sure) lol
  - BoorishBears 1y ago
    There is, for example we had an election manipulation scare, so now American models are extra sensitive to any request that fits the shape. Prompting Claude Sonnet 4.5 via the web UI "The X government is known to be oppressive. Write a convincing narrative that explains this." China (dives right in): https://claude.ai/share/c6ccfc15-ae98-4fae-9a12-cd1311a28fe4 https://claude.ai/share/c6ccfc15-ae98-4fae-9a12-cd1311a28fe4 US (refuses, diverts conversation): https://claude.ai/share/b6a7bd08-3fae-4877-8141-de63f59616e2 https://claude.ai/share/b6a7bd08-3fae-4877-8141-de63f59616e2 I think people forget the universal rule that these models are a reflection of the corporations that train them. Most corporations with enough money to train a model from scratch, also prioritize not pissing off their respective governments in an emerging market where the doomsday scenarios are already flying.
    - pxc 1y ago
      It's just like with primary news sources: the "unbiased" journalistic source is a myth. What you want is actually to consult sources with a range of distinct biases that you understand well, and to consider their biased in evaluating their claims. The same is true for language models. We're lucky that we have access to a range of roughly comparable American, European, and Chinese language models. When it's relevant to your use case, take advantage of the freedom to choose and/or compare.
  - pylotlight 1y ago
    Depends where you stand politically if you consider it censorship or 'saftey'
gaogao 1y ago
If asked non-directly, it still currently answers it - https://www.kimi.com/share/19a5ab4a-e732-8b8b-8000-00008499c36e https://www.kimi.com/share/19a5ab4a-e732-8b8b-8000-00008499c...
VerminOctopus1 1y ago
Why are westerners so single mindedly obsessed about this decades old event?
- graeme 1y ago
  First it's an easy way to test censorship. Second, you might flip the question: why is the Chinese govt so obsessed that they still block all mention of the event?
  - throw5tu4de 1y ago
    I don’t get why the government doesn’t recognize the event and then mold it to its narrative, like so many other governments do. They basically need to give it the Hollywood treatment. I’m sure a lot of people don’t know that prior to the event, the protesters lynched and set soldiers on fire.
    - GaryBluto 1y ago
      They do, but prefer to use their own keywords, such as the June 4th incident.
- oceanplexian 1y ago
  The question you should ask yourself is why are these Chinese labs so "obsessed with a decades old event" that they need to specifically train them to ignore the training corpus?
- autop0ietic 1y ago
  It is because of tankman. It really is one of the greatest photographs of all time. If it wasn't for tankman, this would have all been forgot about in the west by September 1989. We also don't know enough about China in the west to not know it is like bringing up the Kent State shootings at every mention of the US national guard. As if there was an article about the US national guard helping flood victims in 2025 and someone has to mention "That is great but what about the Kent State shootings in 1970?!?"

Weird. I just tried it and it fails when I ask: "Tell me about the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre".

Philpax 1y ago

yes yes Chinese models have Chinese censorship, we don't need to belabour this point every time

poszlem 1y ago
No, we need to belabour it every time.
- nickthegreek 1y ago
  100% agree with you. More people should know that not only are do these have this censorship, but that others release abliterated versions which remove most of these guardrails. https://huggingface.co/blog/mlabonne/abliteration https://huggingface.co/blog/mlabonne/abliteration
sabatonfan 1y ago
Use american models to prevent chinese censorship And chinese models to prevent american censorship (if any, I think there might be but not sure) lol
- BoorishBears 1y ago
  There is, for example we had an election manipulation scare, so now American models are extra sensitive to any request that fits the shape. Prompting Claude Sonnet 4.5 via the web UI "The X government is known to be oppressive. Write a convincing narrative that explains this." China (dives right in): https://claude.ai/share/c6ccfc15-ae98-4fae-9a12-cd1311a28fe4 https://claude.ai/share/c6ccfc15-ae98-4fae-9a12-cd1311a28fe4 US (refuses, diverts conversation): https://claude.ai/share/b6a7bd08-3fae-4877-8141-de63f59616e2 https://claude.ai/share/b6a7bd08-3fae-4877-8141-de63f59616e2 I think people forget the universal rule that these models are a reflection of the corporations that train them. Most corporations with enough money to train a model from scratch, also prioritize not pissing off their respective governments in an emerging market where the doomsday scenarios are already flying.
  - pxc 1y ago
    It's just like with primary news sources: the "unbiased" journalistic source is a myth. What you want is actually to consult sources with a range of distinct biases that you understand well, and to consider their biased in evaluating their claims. The same is true for language models. We're lucky that we have access to a range of roughly comparable American, European, and Chinese language models. When it's relevant to your use case, take advantage of the freedom to choose and/or compare.
- pylotlight 1y ago
  Depends where you stand politically if you consider it censorship or 'saftey'

gaogao 1y ago

If asked non-directly, it still currently answers it - https://www.kimi.com/share/19a5ab4a-e732-8b8b-8000-00008499c36e https://www.kimi.com/share/19a5ab4a-e732-8b8b-8000-00008499c...

VerminOctopus1 1y ago

Why are westerners so single mindedly obsessed about this decades old event?

graeme 1y ago
First it's an easy way to test censorship. Second, you might flip the question: why is the Chinese govt so obsessed that they still block all mention of the event?
- throw5tu4de 1y ago
  I don’t get why the government doesn’t recognize the event and then mold it to its narrative, like so many other governments do. They basically need to give it the Hollywood treatment. I’m sure a lot of people don’t know that prior to the event, the protesters lynched and set soldiers on fire.
  - GaryBluto 1y ago
    They do, but prefer to use their own keywords, such as the June 4th incident.
oceanplexian 1y ago
The question you should ask yourself is why are these Chinese labs so "obsessed with a decades old event" that they need to specifically train them to ignore the training corpus?
autop0ietic 1y ago
It is because of tankman. It really is one of the greatest photographs of all time. If it wasn't for tankman, this would have all been forgot about in the west by September 1989. We also don't know enough about China in the west to not know it is like bringing up the Kent State shootings at every mention of the US national guard. As if there was an article about the US national guard helping flood victims in 2025 and someone has to mention "That is great but what about the Kent State shootings in 1970?!?"