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> Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread

> Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread again, he literally threw two Sieg Heils. I don't see that every day.

ajross 1y ago
That's a pretty strained "literally". Even taking everything at the worst possible interpretation, it's edgelord fuckery. Not something I'd personally support, but absolutely in the "drunk uncle" category of misbehavior. I think some of the problem is that people aren't exposed to enough drunk uncles to know how awful the electorate can be. Again, we're barely a half century removed from living in a literal[1] segregated society. But the drunk uncles are out there, and you are doing business with them all the time. Picking fights over cars within your own community of like minded people is a shibboleth/proxy argument that does nothing but hurt your cause. [1] Literally literal, in this case.
- postflopclarity 1y ago
  it's really not strained. did you watch the (many) videos? it is a literally literal Nazi salute, twice. > taking everything at the worst possible interpretation wouldn't the "worst possible interpretation" here also equal the simplest possible interpretation, which is that he did two Sieg Heils because he's a Nazi sympathizer? > you are doing business with them all the time I'm really not generally in the habit of supporting the business interests of Nazis, no. just to be clear, if my uncle were a Nazi he would not be welcome in my life, in my home, nor near any of my family. I'm not sure why you're going to so much effort to excuse this behavior.
  - ajross 1y ago
    > it is a literally literal Nazi salute, twice It is clearly not, though. It's arguably evocative of one. There is an actual form to the thing, it was a military gyration, and people taught it. You can even read the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute It is static at the end, being held with palm down and arm stretched forward. It does not begin at the heart, as Musk performed, nor swing sideways. Obviously you don't care about this minutiae, but it's important if you want to hang your argument on "literally a Nazi salute". What you and I both agree on is that this was intended to evoke the idea. Where we differ is how you want to interpret it. You, I guess, think it means signaling a desire to repeat the holocaust, or something maybe a little less horrifying. I think it's pretty clear he's wanting to create exactly the argument we're having. To wit, this was a troll, and you fell for it, and now all us lefties look like Ivermectin snorting loons because real people OBVIOUSLY know that Musk isn't a nazi.
    - breve 1y ago
      Actions have consequences. Musk chose his actions and now he gets to live the consequences. There really is no point in trying to excuse or rationalize it.
      - ajross 1y ago
        Just to extend the thread: nothing you say there engages with my point (which amounts to "Musk is just a routine reactionary right winger like we all deal with every day"). You're just saying you want to hate him because you want to hate him, and by extension I'm not allowed to (there is "no point in") trying to explain my contrary opinion because you disagree with it. It's not a very HN comment. And I really don't think you're internal moral compass is consistent on this, again citing all the drunk uncles you do business with without shame.
        breve 1y ago
        You aren't making any points. You're emotionally trying to rationalize Musk's behaviour. It's not worth your time or effort. In the end, Tesla is just a car company. You can buy an EV from a company that isn't run by a "drunk uncle". And if you're invested in Tesla, diversify your investments (that's just good financial sense). Teslas aren't exactly cutting edge anymore. For example, Tesla's charge curve is quite weak compared to other EVs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46Ag0djjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46Ag0djjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAky0r8n5sk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAky0r8n5sk
        ajross 1y ago
        > You aren't making any points. You replied directly to a comment where I tried to engage substantially and with external links in a discussion about whether or not he was "literally" doing a Nazi salute. You ignored that part in favor of a "actions have consequences" quip. Then when I called you out you decided to change the subject to something that amounts to "Well Teslas aren't any good anyway!". To be blunt: that's a taking-your-toys-and-going-home argument, and HN deserves better. The whole point of this interminable subthread is that I'm trying to challenge your assumptions. And it seems like I'm doing it pretty well, given the way you're deflecting. Maybe you'd find it more productive to do some introspection?

ajross 1y ago

That's a pretty strained "literally". Even taking everything at the worst possible interpretation, it's edgelord fuckery. Not something I'd personally support, but absolutely in the "drunk uncle" category of misbehavior. I think some of the problem is that people aren't exposed to enough drunk uncles to know how awful the electorate can be. Again, we're barely a half century removed from living in a literal[1] segregated society. But the drunk uncles are out there, and you are doing business with them all the time. Picking fights over cars within your own community of like minded people is a shibboleth/proxy argument that does nothing but hurt your cause. [1] Literally literal, in this case.

postflopclarity 1y ago
it's really not strained. did you watch the (many) videos? it is a literally literal Nazi salute, twice. > taking everything at the worst possible interpretation wouldn't the "worst possible interpretation" here also equal the simplest possible interpretation, which is that he did two Sieg Heils because he's a Nazi sympathizer? > you are doing business with them all the time I'm really not generally in the habit of supporting the business interests of Nazis, no. just to be clear, if my uncle were a Nazi he would not be welcome in my life, in my home, nor near any of my family. I'm not sure why you're going to so much effort to excuse this behavior.
- ajross 1y ago
  > it is a literally literal Nazi salute, twice It is clearly not, though. It's arguably evocative of one. There is an actual form to the thing, it was a military gyration, and people taught it. You can even read the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute It is static at the end, being held with palm down and arm stretched forward. It does not begin at the heart, as Musk performed, nor swing sideways. Obviously you don't care about this minutiae, but it's important if you want to hang your argument on "literally a Nazi salute". What you and I both agree on is that this was intended to evoke the idea. Where we differ is how you want to interpret it. You, I guess, think it means signaling a desire to repeat the holocaust, or something maybe a little less horrifying. I think it's pretty clear he's wanting to create exactly the argument we're having. To wit, this was a troll, and you fell for it, and now all us lefties look like Ivermectin snorting loons because real people OBVIOUSLY know that Musk isn't a nazi.
  - breve 1y ago
    Actions have consequences. Musk chose his actions and now he gets to live the consequences. There really is no point in trying to excuse or rationalize it.
    - ajross 1y ago
      Just to extend the thread: nothing you say there engages with my point (which amounts to "Musk is just a routine reactionary right winger like we all deal with every day"). You're just saying you want to hate him because you want to hate him, and by extension I'm not allowed to (there is "no point in") trying to explain my contrary opinion because you disagree with it. It's not a very HN comment. And I really don't think you're internal moral compass is consistent on this, again citing all the drunk uncles you do business with without shame.
      - breve 1y ago
        You aren't making any points. You're emotionally trying to rationalize Musk's behaviour. It's not worth your time or effort. In the end, Tesla is just a car company. You can buy an EV from a company that isn't run by a "drunk uncle". And if you're invested in Tesla, diversify your investments (that's just good financial sense). Teslas aren't exactly cutting edge anymore. For example, Tesla's charge curve is quite weak compared to other EVs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46Ag0djjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46Ag0djjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAky0r8n5sk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAky0r8n5sk
        ajross 1y ago
        > You aren't making any points. You replied directly to a comment where I tried to engage substantially and with external links in a discussion about whether or not he was "literally" doing a Nazi salute. You ignored that part in favor of a "actions have consequences" quip. Then when I called you out you decided to change the subject to something that amounts to "Well Teslas aren't any good anyway!". To be blunt: that's a taking-your-toys-and-going-home argument, and HN deserves better. The whole point of this interminable subthread is that I'm trying to challenge your assumptions. And it seems like I'm doing it pretty well, given the way you're deflecting. Maybe you'd find it more productive to do some introspection?