3 ms·

Why is a shutdown even possible? If there’s no agreement just use what was already law before. It makes no sense. What other country has such a stupid procedur

Why is a shutdown even possible? If there’s no agreement just use what was already law before. It makes no sense. What other country has such a stupid procedure?

jsolson 1y ago
I'd say certain countries in Europe give us a run for our money: https://caw.ceu.edu/other-activities/academic-blog/politics/how-did-belgium-manage-to-survive-without-having-agovernment https://caw.ceu.edu/other-activities/academic-blog/politics/...
- arp242 1y ago
  Not really comparable because the bureaucratic system kept running. It's just a completely different political system and "there is no government" means a different thing. US-style "government shutdowns" don't really happen in Belgium.
- apexalpha 1y ago
  This is completely different. The is the politicians not being able to form a coalition. Imagine your congress not agreeing to fill some commissions or confirm some positions in government. It is a 'shutdown' of the legislative branch, not the executive.
  - aidenn0 1y ago
    In the US, the legislative branch controls the budget, so when their budget expires, if the legislative branch is shutdown, so is the money.
femto 1y ago
Other countries call it "Loss of Supply". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_supply Usually it is interpreted as a loss of confidence in the government, resulting in the formation of a new government or the calling of an election. Potential loss of power is a pretty good incentive for a government to find a sensible solution.
pdonis 1y ago
> Why is a shutdown even possible? Because much of what the US government does, including paying most of its employees, is funded by annual appropriations, which are only valid for one particular fiscal year. As soon as that fiscal year ends and a new one starts, if new annual appropriations haven't been passed for the new fiscal year (or something else that provides funds, like a Continuing Resolution), all those things have to stop because there's no money to fund them any more. There's no Constitutional requirement for all those things to be funded by annual appropriations; the only restriction the Constitution imposes is that no appropriation "to raise and support Armies" shall be for more than two years. It's just how the budgeting process has evolved. > If there’s no agreement just use what was already law before That won't work quite as you state it because "what was already law before" expired at the end of the last fiscal year. A Continuing Resolution is an attempt to extend "what was already law before" for some period into the new fiscal year (in the case of the one passed by the House in September that was until November 21). But it still has to be passed as a law--it doesn't just happen automatically. Congress could put something in place to do that (since there's no Constitutional bar to that--see above), but they never have.
NewJazz 1y ago
Fun fact: this didn't happen before 1980 when the courts started enforcing the anti deficiency act.
rk06 1y ago
better, US can move essential services to a separate budget and keep it away from this shutdown nonsense.
mlrtime 1y ago
Have you lived in London or Paris? There are WEEKLY strikes on public transportation. I now live in the US and rarely a day goes by that my teammates across the pond don't complain about how bad the trains are to commute to work, half the time its because of a strike.

Why is a shutdown even possible? If there’s no agreement just use what was already law before. It makes no sense. What other country has such a stupid procedure?

jsolson 1y ago

I'd say certain countries in Europe give us a run for our money: https://caw.ceu.edu/other-activities/academic-blog/politics/how-did-belgium-manage-to-survive-without-having-agovernment https://caw.ceu.edu/other-activities/academic-blog/politics/...

arp242 1y ago
Not really comparable because the bureaucratic system kept running. It's just a completely different political system and "there is no government" means a different thing. US-style "government shutdowns" don't really happen in Belgium.
apexalpha 1y ago
This is completely different. The is the politicians not being able to form a coalition. Imagine your congress not agreeing to fill some commissions or confirm some positions in government. It is a 'shutdown' of the legislative branch, not the executive.
- aidenn0 1y ago
  In the US, the legislative branch controls the budget, so when their budget expires, if the legislative branch is shutdown, so is the money.

femto 1y ago

Other countries call it "Loss of Supply". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_supply Usually it is interpreted as a loss of confidence in the government, resulting in the formation of a new government or the calling of an election. Potential loss of power is a pretty good incentive for a government to find a sensible solution.

pdonis 1y ago

> Why is a shutdown even possible? Because much of what the US government does, including paying most of its employees, is funded by annual appropriations, which are only valid for one particular fiscal year. As soon as that fiscal year ends and a new one starts, if new annual appropriations haven't been passed for the new fiscal year (or something else that provides funds, like a Continuing Resolution), all those things have to stop because there's no money to fund them any more. There's no Constitutional requirement for all those things to be funded by annual appropriations; the only restriction the Constitution imposes is that no appropriation "to raise and support Armies" shall be for more than two years. It's just how the budgeting process has evolved. > If there’s no agreement just use what was already law before That won't work quite as you state it because "what was already law before" expired at the end of the last fiscal year. A Continuing Resolution is an attempt to extend "what was already law before" for some period into the new fiscal year (in the case of the one passed by the House in September that was until November 21). But it still has to be passed as a law--it doesn't just happen automatically. Congress could put something in place to do that (since there's no Constitutional bar to that--see above), but they never have.

NewJazz 1y ago

Fun fact: this didn't happen before 1980 when the courts started enforcing the anti deficiency act.

rk06 1y ago

better, US can move essential services to a separate budget and keep it away from this shutdown nonsense.

mlrtime 1y ago

Have you lived in London or Paris? There are WEEKLY strikes on public transportation. I now live in the US and rarely a day goes by that my teammates across the pond don't complain about how bad the trains are to commute to work, half the time its because of a strike.