3 ms·

Less punchy but close to the truth: people leave for a lot of reasons. I can’t think of a time I’ve quit over a bad boss. Bosses come and go, even bad ones. If

Less punchy but close to the truth: people leave for a lot of reasons. I can’t think of a time I’ve quit over a bad boss. Bosses come and go, even bad ones. If you only ever have bad bosses, that’s an executive problem, not a manager problem.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago
I have quit because of bad management, but never because of one bad boss. (Or it may have been one bad boss, but it was high enough up the management chain that I didn't know specifically who it was.)
whstl 1y ago
I guess the point is that a lot of those other reasons are caused by managers. Gotta put up fights with other teams to do your job? Manager should be unblocking you. Got no tools, bad computer? Manager should be putting up a fight. Low salary? Manager should be negotiating on your behalf. But on the other hand, maybe I'm just old fashioned. Today, in the world of micromanagement, line-managers aren't expected to be much more than cannon-fodder to be blamed by C-levels when developers are unhappy.
- sevensor 1y ago
  > Today, in the world of micromanagement, line-managers aren't expected to be much more than cannon-fodder to be blamed by C-levels when developers are unhappy. Exactly. Line managers take the heat from above and below. In a dysfunctional organization, they can make your life worse but they have very limited ability to make it better. That’s why I object to the “people quit bad managers” quote. It’s just not true to my experience, and it absolves poor executive leadership from responsibility.
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    Maybe people quit bad management, instead of bad managers, then?
    - whstl 1y ago
      Yep. That actually makes more sense in modern micromanagey companies, especially tech companies.
  - whstl 1y ago
    That makes sense. Funny enough, the person who told me that was a C-Level who was blocking salary increases that were long overdue. I ended up leaving, ha.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago

I have quit because of bad management, but never because of one bad boss. (Or it may have been one bad boss, but it was high enough up the management chain that I didn't know specifically who it was.)

whstl 1y ago

I guess the point is that a lot of those other reasons are caused by managers. Gotta put up fights with other teams to do your job? Manager should be unblocking you. Got no tools, bad computer? Manager should be putting up a fight. Low salary? Manager should be negotiating on your behalf. But on the other hand, maybe I'm just old fashioned. Today, in the world of micromanagement, line-managers aren't expected to be much more than cannon-fodder to be blamed by C-levels when developers are unhappy.

sevensor 1y ago
> Today, in the world of micromanagement, line-managers aren't expected to be much more than cannon-fodder to be blamed by C-levels when developers are unhappy. Exactly. Line managers take the heat from above and below. In a dysfunctional organization, they can make your life worse but they have very limited ability to make it better. That’s why I object to the “people quit bad managers” quote. It’s just not true to my experience, and it absolves poor executive leadership from responsibility.
- rkomorn 1y ago
  Maybe people quit bad management, instead of bad managers, then?
  - whstl 1y ago
    Yep. That actually makes more sense in modern micromanagey companies, especially tech companies.
- whstl 1y ago
  That makes sense. Funny enough, the person who told me that was a C-Level who was blocking salary increases that were long overdue. I ended up leaving, ha.