4 ms·

if your slightly racist drunk uncle was the richest man in the world and one of the most politically influential oligarchs in US history, sure.

ajross 1y ago
Right, and I repeat: if this you arguing with drunk uncles, that's not me. If this is you doing praxis and trying to organize, you are aiming at the wrong target by trying to engage with your political allies here on HN. Mostly, I suspect, you're just angry and wanting to blow off steam. Which is fine! But not likely to make either of us feel better.
- breve 1y ago
  I don't see the point in the mental gymnastics to make excuses for Musk. He's plainly not as you wish him to be. It's much better to simply see him as he is. This is how he is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc It's not great.
  - ajross 1y ago
    Where do you see me making excuses for Musk? I'm saying I'm happy to drive, buy and recommend a Tesla even if the company is run by a drunk uncle because the other 100,000 of them seem like they worked hard to make a good product. You really think Telsa is the only company with drunk uncles at the helm? Again, the collision of your personal politics with what you want to achieve seems really muddled here. What do you achieve by yelling at me on HN, exactly?
    - breve 1y ago
      Calling him a drunk uncle is making excuses for him.
      - ajross 1y ago
        Only if you take as a prior that he's somehow more objectionable than the like 20% of the electorate that I'm painting as "drunk uncles". And he's... not. He's just rich. Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread (in fact he's a pretty pure distillation of the HN self-righteous libertarian jerk, honestly). And you don't like that. And I don't like that either. But I'm not going to judge him any more severely than I do anyone here. And yeah, I think the cars are pretty great, and the people that make them (to first approximation, none of them are Musk!) deserve to have jobs making successful cars. At the end of the day you need to share society with people you hate. And some of them make products you need or want. This isn't a winnable fight you're engaging in.
        postflopclarity 1y ago
        > Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread again, he literally threw two Sieg Heils. I don't see that every day.
        ajross 1y ago
        That's a pretty strained "literally". Even taking everything at the worst possible interpretation, it's edgelord fuckery. Not something I'd personally support, but absolutely in the "drunk uncle" category of misbehavior. I think some of the problem is that people aren't exposed to enough drunk uncles to know how awful the electorate can be. Again, we're barely a half century removed from living in a literal[1] segregated society. But the drunk uncles are out there, and you are doing business with them all the time. Picking fights over cars within your own community of like minded people is a shibboleth/proxy argument that does nothing but hurt your cause. [1] Literally literal, in this case.
        postflopclarity 1y ago
        it's really not strained. did you watch the (many) videos? it is a literally literal Nazi salute, twice. > taking everything at the worst possible interpretation wouldn't the "worst possible interpretation" here also equal the simplest possible interpretation, which is that he did two Sieg Heils because he's a Nazi sympathizer? > you are doing business with them all the time I'm really not generally in the habit of supporting the business interests of Nazis, no. just to be clear, if my uncle were a Nazi he would not be welcome in my life, in my home, nor near any of my family. I'm not sure why you're going to so much effort to excuse this behavior.
    - postflopclarity 1y ago
      you're supporting the business ventures of a literal Nazi. I'm generally not a fan of "cancel culture" but in this case I think a boycott is the only ethical choice.

ajross 1y ago

Right, and I repeat: if this you arguing with drunk uncles, that's not me. If this is you doing praxis and trying to organize, you are aiming at the wrong target by trying to engage with your political allies here on HN. Mostly, I suspect, you're just angry and wanting to blow off steam. Which is fine! But not likely to make either of us feel better.

breve 1y ago
I don't see the point in the mental gymnastics to make excuses for Musk. He's plainly not as you wish him to be. It's much better to simply see him as he is. This is how he is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc It's not great.
- ajross 1y ago
  Where do you see me making excuses for Musk? I'm saying I'm happy to drive, buy and recommend a Tesla even if the company is run by a drunk uncle because the other 100,000 of them seem like they worked hard to make a good product. You really think Telsa is the only company with drunk uncles at the helm? Again, the collision of your personal politics with what you want to achieve seems really muddled here. What do you achieve by yelling at me on HN, exactly?
  - breve 1y ago
    Calling him a drunk uncle is making excuses for him.
    - ajross 1y ago
      Only if you take as a prior that he's somehow more objectionable than the like 20% of the electorate that I'm painting as "drunk uncles". And he's... not. He's just rich. Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread (in fact he's a pretty pure distillation of the HN self-righteous libertarian jerk, honestly). And you don't like that. And I don't like that either. But I'm not going to judge him any more severely than I do anyone here. And yeah, I think the cars are pretty great, and the people that make them (to first approximation, none of them are Musk!) deserve to have jobs making successful cars. At the end of the day you need to share society with people you hate. And some of them make products you need or want. This isn't a winnable fight you're engaging in.
      - postflopclarity 1y ago
        > Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread again, he literally threw two Sieg Heils. I don't see that every day.
        ajross 1y ago
        That's a pretty strained "literally". Even taking everything at the worst possible interpretation, it's edgelord fuckery. Not something I'd personally support, but absolutely in the "drunk uncle" category of misbehavior. I think some of the problem is that people aren't exposed to enough drunk uncles to know how awful the electorate can be. Again, we're barely a half century removed from living in a literal[1] segregated society. But the drunk uncles are out there, and you are doing business with them all the time. Picking fights over cars within your own community of like minded people is a shibboleth/proxy argument that does nothing but hurt your cause. [1] Literally literal, in this case.
        postflopclarity 1y ago
        it's really not strained. did you watch the (many) videos? it is a literally literal Nazi salute, twice. > taking everything at the worst possible interpretation wouldn't the "worst possible interpretation" here also equal the simplest possible interpretation, which is that he did two Sieg Heils because he's a Nazi sympathizer? > you are doing business with them all the time I'm really not generally in the habit of supporting the business interests of Nazis, no. just to be clear, if my uncle were a Nazi he would not be welcome in my life, in my home, nor near any of my family. I'm not sure why you're going to so much effort to excuse this behavior.
  - postflopclarity 1y ago
    you're supporting the business ventures of a literal Nazi. I'm generally not a fan of "cancel culture" but in this case I think a boycott is the only ethical choice.