4 ms·

Yeah, but "the standard" in this case is basically "everyone's slightly racist drunk uncle". You or I might disagree with that politics but it's absolutely not

by ajross 1y ago

Yeah, but "the standard" in this case is basically "everyone's slightly racist drunk uncle". You or I might disagree with that politics but it's absolutely not "uncommon", at all. In fact there's nothing particularly notable about the guy's opinions at all absent the financial force behind them. So... are we cancelling the guy for his opinions or engaging in praxis trying to eliminate his ideology's funding? Very different moral calculus, IMHO, and neither seems very well justified (or implemented[1]) by the attitude I'm seeing in these debates. [1] I mean, downvoting your fellow lefty traveller in a tiff over the car he drives might feel good but it's clearly not having the desired effect of changing Musk's politics. I am not your enemy, basically. Why are you fighting with the guy who's already voting for your candidates?

postflopclarity 1y ago
if your slightly racist drunk uncle was the richest man in the world and one of the most politically influential oligarchs in US history, sure.
- ajross 1y ago
  Right, and I repeat: if this you arguing with drunk uncles, that's not me. If this is you doing praxis and trying to organize, you are aiming at the wrong target by trying to engage with your political allies here on HN. Mostly, I suspect, you're just angry and wanting to blow off steam. Which is fine! But not likely to make either of us feel better.
  - breve 1y ago
    I don't see the point in the mental gymnastics to make excuses for Musk. He's plainly not as you wish him to be. It's much better to simply see him as he is. This is how he is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc It's not great.
    - ajross 1y ago
      Where do you see me making excuses for Musk? I'm saying I'm happy to drive, buy and recommend a Tesla even if the company is run by a drunk uncle because the other 100,000 of them seem like they worked hard to make a good product. You really think Telsa is the only company with drunk uncles at the helm? Again, the collision of your personal politics with what you want to achieve seems really muddled here. What do you achieve by yelling at me on HN, exactly?
      - breve 1y ago
        Calling him a drunk uncle is making excuses for him.
        ajross 1y ago
        Only if you take as a prior that he's somehow more objectionable than the like 20% of the electorate that I'm painting as "drunk uncles". And he's... not. He's just rich. Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread (in fact he's a pretty pure distillation of the HN self-righteous libertarian jerk, honestly). And you don't like that. And I don't like that either. But I'm not going to judge him any more severely than I do anyone here. And yeah, I think the cars are pretty great, and the people that make them (to first approximation, none of them are Musk!) deserve to have jobs making successful cars. At the end of the day you need to share society with people you hate. And some of them make products you need or want. This isn't a winnable fight you're engaging in.
        postflopclarity 1y ago
        > Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread again, he literally threw two Sieg Heils. I don't see that every day.
        1y ago

by ajross 1y ago

postflopclarity 1y ago

if your slightly racist drunk uncle was the richest man in the world and one of the most politically influential oligarchs in US history, sure.

ajross 1y ago
Right, and I repeat: if this you arguing with drunk uncles, that's not me. If this is you doing praxis and trying to organize, you are aiming at the wrong target by trying to engage with your political allies here on HN. Mostly, I suspect, you're just angry and wanting to blow off steam. Which is fine! But not likely to make either of us feel better.
- breve 1y ago
  I don't see the point in the mental gymnastics to make excuses for Musk. He's plainly not as you wish him to be. It's much better to simply see him as he is. This is how he is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc It's not great.
  - ajross 1y ago
    Where do you see me making excuses for Musk? I'm saying I'm happy to drive, buy and recommend a Tesla even if the company is run by a drunk uncle because the other 100,000 of them seem like they worked hard to make a good product. You really think Telsa is the only company with drunk uncles at the helm? Again, the collision of your personal politics with what you want to achieve seems really muddled here. What do you achieve by yelling at me on HN, exactly?
    - breve 1y ago
      Calling him a drunk uncle is making excuses for him.
      - ajross 1y ago
        Only if you take as a prior that he's somehow more objectionable than the like 20% of the electorate that I'm painting as "drunk uncles". And he's... not. He's just rich. Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread (in fact he's a pretty pure distillation of the HN self-righteous libertarian jerk, honestly). And you don't like that. And I don't like that either. But I'm not going to judge him any more severely than I do anyone here. And yeah, I think the cars are pretty great, and the people that make them (to first approximation, none of them are Musk!) deserve to have jobs making successful cars. At the end of the day you need to share society with people you hate. And some of them make products you need or want. This isn't a winnable fight you're engaging in.
        postflopclarity 1y ago
        > Musk doesn't say or do anything you can't see on Fox every day. He doesn't spout opinions you can't read expressed right here on HN in every politics thread again, he literally threw two Sieg Heils. I don't see that every day.
        1y ago