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>most people are rejecting contemporary right-wing policies and politics. Hmm... >No longer are we going to tolerate the intolerant. If you are willing to lo

>most people are rejecting contemporary right-wing policies and politics. Hmm... >No longer are we going to tolerate the intolerant. If you are willing to look past the moral failings, you are seen as part of the problem and should expect consequences. Social dynamics are at work The woke left forcing ideological conformity loses them a lot of support from the center-left, which turns out is not a winning electoral strategy. At which point one must wonder if the wokeness is just performative and virtue signaling, rather than an attempt to gain actual political power.

verdverm 1y ago
> The woke left forcing ideological conformity It's not about forcing conformity, it's about having basic human decency. Right-wingers belittle and dehumanize so many groups and people it's hard to keep track see also: Paradox of tolerance > turns out is not a winning electoral strategy umm, did you look at the election results from yesterday? #1 economy (i.e. emotionally driven tariffs) #2 people don't like seeing children and neighbors disappeared by masked thugs (i.e. due-process and rule-of-law)
- buellerbueller 1y ago
  >umm, did you look at the election results from yesterday? >#1 economy (i.e. emotionally driven tariffs) >#2 people don't like seeing children and neighbors disappeared by masked thugs >(i.e. due-process and rule-of-law) None of which are the identity politics issues that the woke left forces on people, and expects ideological conformity on.
Forgeties79 1y ago
You’re totally right. Rampant government cuts, attacking healthcare subsidies, attacking LGBT Americans, threatening universities, ego-driven tariff policy, and just generally poor economic stewardship, should be the electoral strategy. It sure seems to be working out for republicans.
- buellerbueller 1y ago
  >Rampant government cuts, attacking healthcare subsidies, attacking LGBT Americans, threatening universities, ego-driven tariff policy, and just generally poor economic stewardship, should be the electoral strategy. It sure seems to be working out for republicans. I agree with none of these policies. I also just disagree with the woke left's focus on identity politics, because I see it as a losing battle, electorally. I prefer the left to focus on labor and economic issues, which apply broadly to all, regardless of their identity. I believe in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and insofar as it informs my political views, food shelter and jobs are far more important issues than identitarian issues. Solve the basic needs first, and when everyone has a fair piece of our wealthy country's economic pie, I suspect we will find the identity issues are easier to address, with broader support.
  - Forgeties79 1y ago
    You keep saying “the woke left’s” identity politics as the Trump administration uses the government to enforce right wing identity politics and stifle free speech. Do you also find that objectionable? Or do you think this is purely a problem on the left? My guess is the only difference is you agree with conservative identity politics and not liberal identity politics, so one is seen as “natural and normal” and the other seems “manufactured and forced on people.” I could be wrong, but that is generally my experience in these conversations.
    - buellerbueller 1y ago
      >You keep saying “the woke left’s” identity politics as the Trump administration uses the government to enforce right wing identity politics and stifle free speech. Do you also find that objectionable? Yes. > Or do you think this is purely a problem on the left? I am not a member of the right wing parties, so I have no pull with them. I also think they are less likely to change. >My guess is the only difference is you agree with conservative identity politics and not liberal identity politics Your guess is wrong. I think all identity politics are bad politics until we solve basic human needs stuff like feed and house everyone and jobs that pay a living wage for anyone who wants one. I get it, I don't fit into your preconcieved box, but the boxes are designed by the oligarchy who wants to keep us in separate boxes, so we can't unite.

verdverm 1y ago

> The woke left forcing ideological conformity It's not about forcing conformity, it's about having basic human decency. Right-wingers belittle and dehumanize so many groups and people it's hard to keep track see also: Paradox of tolerance > turns out is not a winning electoral strategy umm, did you look at the election results from yesterday? #1 economy (i.e. emotionally driven tariffs) #2 people don't like seeing children and neighbors disappeared by masked thugs (i.e. due-process and rule-of-law)

buellerbueller 1y ago
>umm, did you look at the election results from yesterday? >#1 economy (i.e. emotionally driven tariffs) >#2 people don't like seeing children and neighbors disappeared by masked thugs >(i.e. due-process and rule-of-law) None of which are the identity politics issues that the woke left forces on people, and expects ideological conformity on.

Forgeties79 1y ago

You’re totally right. Rampant government cuts, attacking healthcare subsidies, attacking LGBT Americans, threatening universities, ego-driven tariff policy, and just generally poor economic stewardship, should be the electoral strategy. It sure seems to be working out for republicans.

buellerbueller 1y ago
>Rampant government cuts, attacking healthcare subsidies, attacking LGBT Americans, threatening universities, ego-driven tariff policy, and just generally poor economic stewardship, should be the electoral strategy. It sure seems to be working out for republicans. I agree with none of these policies. I also just disagree with the woke left's focus on identity politics, because I see it as a losing battle, electorally. I prefer the left to focus on labor and economic issues, which apply broadly to all, regardless of their identity. I believe in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and insofar as it informs my political views, food shelter and jobs are far more important issues than identitarian issues. Solve the basic needs first, and when everyone has a fair piece of our wealthy country's economic pie, I suspect we will find the identity issues are easier to address, with broader support.
- Forgeties79 1y ago
  You keep saying “the woke left’s” identity politics as the Trump administration uses the government to enforce right wing identity politics and stifle free speech. Do you also find that objectionable? Or do you think this is purely a problem on the left? My guess is the only difference is you agree with conservative identity politics and not liberal identity politics, so one is seen as “natural and normal” and the other seems “manufactured and forced on people.” I could be wrong, but that is generally my experience in these conversations.
  - buellerbueller 1y ago
    >You keep saying “the woke left’s” identity politics as the Trump administration uses the government to enforce right wing identity politics and stifle free speech. Do you also find that objectionable? Yes. > Or do you think this is purely a problem on the left? I am not a member of the right wing parties, so I have no pull with them. I also think they are less likely to change. >My guess is the only difference is you agree with conservative identity politics and not liberal identity politics Your guess is wrong. I think all identity politics are bad politics until we solve basic human needs stuff like feed and house everyone and jobs that pay a living wage for anyone who wants one. I get it, I don't fit into your preconcieved box, but the boxes are designed by the oligarchy who wants to keep us in separate boxes, so we can't unite.