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> Tesla fanboys don’t realize I don't know who you're addressing. Lots of people, me included, don't like the conspiracy minded politicization of his fortune

by ajross 1y ago

> Tesla fanboys don’t realize I don't know who you're addressing. Lots of people, me included, don't like the conspiracy minded politicization of his fortune but still think the cars are pretty great. Seems like a boring opinion that wouldn't be controversial, but we still find ourselves subtweeted anyway. (Edit: three downvotes and a Godwin's Law reply drop within seconds, as expected. Seriously folks there are 125k people who work for that company, must everything about it be judged entirely on the last twelve months of one guys mania?)

postflopclarity 1y ago
[flagged]
verdverm 1y ago
The winds have shifted, politics has seeped into everything, consumers are voting with money, most people are rejecting contemporary right-wing policies and politics. No longer are we going to tolerate the intolerant. If you are willing to look past the moral failings, you are seen as part of the problem and should expect consequences. Social dynamics are at work > (Edit: three downvotes and a Godwin's Law reply drop within seconds, as expected. Seriously folks there are 125k people who work for that company, must everything about it be judged entirely on the last twelve months of one guys mania?) It seems the answer is a definitive yes, reflect on why this is. Also, it's far more than 12 months. He's been manic for far longer, if not his entire life. We just saw the unfiltered version for the last 12 months. Now we know
- buellerbueller 1y ago
  >most people are rejecting contemporary right-wing policies and politics. Hmm... >No longer are we going to tolerate the intolerant. If you are willing to look past the moral failings, you are seen as part of the problem and should expect consequences. Social dynamics are at work The woke left forcing ideological conformity loses them a lot of support from the center-left, which turns out is not a winning electoral strategy. At which point one must wonder if the wokeness is just performative and virtue signaling, rather than an attempt to gain actual political power.
  - verdverm 1y ago
    > The woke left forcing ideological conformity It's not about forcing conformity, it's about having basic human decency. Right-wingers belittle and dehumanize so many groups and people it's hard to keep track see also: Paradox of tolerance > turns out is not a winning electoral strategy umm, did you look at the election results from yesterday? #1 economy (i.e. emotionally driven tariffs) #2 people don't like seeing children and neighbors disappeared by masked thugs (i.e. due-process and rule-of-law)
    - buellerbueller 1y ago
      >umm, did you look at the election results from yesterday? >#1 economy (i.e. emotionally driven tariffs) >#2 people don't like seeing children and neighbors disappeared by masked thugs >(i.e. due-process and rule-of-law) None of which are the identity politics issues that the woke left forces on people, and expects ideological conformity on.
  - Forgeties79 1y ago
    You’re totally right. Rampant government cuts, attacking healthcare subsidies, attacking LGBT Americans, threatening universities, ego-driven tariff policy, and just generally poor economic stewardship, should be the electoral strategy. It sure seems to be working out for republicans.
    - buellerbueller 1y ago
      >Rampant government cuts, attacking healthcare subsidies, attacking LGBT Americans, threatening universities, ego-driven tariff policy, and just generally poor economic stewardship, should be the electoral strategy. It sure seems to be working out for republicans. I agree with none of these policies. I also just disagree with the woke left's focus on identity politics, because I see it as a losing battle, electorally. I prefer the left to focus on labor and economic issues, which apply broadly to all, regardless of their identity. I believe in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and insofar as it informs my political views, food shelter and jobs are far more important issues than identitarian issues. Solve the basic needs first, and when everyone has a fair piece of our wealthy country's economic pie, I suspect we will find the identity issues are easier to address, with broader support.
balls187 1y ago
> must everything about it be judged entirely on the last twelve months of one guys mania? Yes, unfortunately. Build a thousand bridges...
saubeidl 1y ago
There is no apolitical, there never was. To say that you're apolitical is just an implicit endorsement of the status quo, coming from a place of privilege.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  I've yet to meet a person who both says they are "apolitical" and are more liberal in their perspectives. It's like centerists. It's funny how when you push at them they reveal more and more right-leaning opinions. Libertarians should, ostensibly, probably have a fairly split voting history, but yet it's always much more right-leaning too.
01100011 1y ago
Is it really Godwin's Law if the guy literally performed a public Nazi salute?
- programable 1y ago
  Not only that, Musk eagerly promoted Tucker Carlson's interview with a Nazi who said the murder of Jews in concentration camps was "humane", and that Winston Churchill was the "chief villain" of WW2.
hiddencost 1y ago
Idk man he's staked his reputation on eliminating my trans family from America. Get fucked.
breve 1y ago
> must everything about it be judged entirely on the last twelve months of one guys mania The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
- ajross 1y ago
  Yeah, but "the standard" in this case is basically "everyone's slightly racist drunk uncle". You or I might disagree with that politics but it's absolutely not "uncommon", at all. In fact there's nothing particularly notable about the guy's opinions at all absent the financial force behind them. So... are we cancelling the guy for his opinions or engaging in praxis trying to eliminate his ideology's funding? Very different moral calculus, IMHO, and neither seems very well justified (or implemented[1]) by the attitude I'm seeing in these debates. [1] I mean, downvoting your fellow lefty traveller in a tiff over the car he drives might feel good but it's clearly not having the desired effect of changing Musk's politics. I am not your enemy, basically. Why are you fighting with the guy who's already voting for your candidates?
  - postflopclarity 1y ago
    if your slightly racist drunk uncle was the richest man in the world and one of the most politically influential oligarchs in US history, sure.
    - ajross 1y ago
      Right, and I repeat: if this you arguing with drunk uncles, that's not me. If this is you doing praxis and trying to organize, you are aiming at the wrong target by trying to engage with your political allies here on HN. Mostly, I suspect, you're just angry and wanting to blow off steam. Which is fine! But not likely to make either of us feel better.
      - breve 1y ago
        I don't see the point in the mental gymnastics to make excuses for Musk. He's plainly not as you wish him to be. It's much better to simply see him as he is. This is how he is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc It's not great.

by ajross 1y ago

postflopclarity 1y ago

[flagged]

verdverm 1y ago

The winds have shifted, politics has seeped into everything, consumers are voting with money, most people are rejecting contemporary right-wing policies and politics. No longer are we going to tolerate the intolerant. If you are willing to look past the moral failings, you are seen as part of the problem and should expect consequences. Social dynamics are at work > (Edit: three downvotes and a Godwin's Law reply drop within seconds, as expected. Seriously folks there are 125k people who work for that company, must everything about it be judged entirely on the last twelve months of one guys mania?) It seems the answer is a definitive yes, reflect on why this is. Also, it's far more than 12 months. He's been manic for far longer, if not his entire life. We just saw the unfiltered version for the last 12 months. Now we know

buellerbueller 1y ago
>most people are rejecting contemporary right-wing policies and politics. Hmm... >No longer are we going to tolerate the intolerant. If you are willing to look past the moral failings, you are seen as part of the problem and should expect consequences. Social dynamics are at work The woke left forcing ideological conformity loses them a lot of support from the center-left, which turns out is not a winning electoral strategy. At which point one must wonder if the wokeness is just performative and virtue signaling, rather than an attempt to gain actual political power.
- verdverm 1y ago
  > The woke left forcing ideological conformity It's not about forcing conformity, it's about having basic human decency. Right-wingers belittle and dehumanize so many groups and people it's hard to keep track see also: Paradox of tolerance > turns out is not a winning electoral strategy umm, did you look at the election results from yesterday? #1 economy (i.e. emotionally driven tariffs) #2 people don't like seeing children and neighbors disappeared by masked thugs (i.e. due-process and rule-of-law)
  - buellerbueller 1y ago
    >umm, did you look at the election results from yesterday? >#1 economy (i.e. emotionally driven tariffs) >#2 people don't like seeing children and neighbors disappeared by masked thugs >(i.e. due-process and rule-of-law) None of which are the identity politics issues that the woke left forces on people, and expects ideological conformity on.
- Forgeties79 1y ago
  You’re totally right. Rampant government cuts, attacking healthcare subsidies, attacking LGBT Americans, threatening universities, ego-driven tariff policy, and just generally poor economic stewardship, should be the electoral strategy. It sure seems to be working out for republicans.
  - buellerbueller 1y ago
    >Rampant government cuts, attacking healthcare subsidies, attacking LGBT Americans, threatening universities, ego-driven tariff policy, and just generally poor economic stewardship, should be the electoral strategy. It sure seems to be working out for republicans. I agree with none of these policies. I also just disagree with the woke left's focus on identity politics, because I see it as a losing battle, electorally. I prefer the left to focus on labor and economic issues, which apply broadly to all, regardless of their identity. I believe in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and insofar as it informs my political views, food shelter and jobs are far more important issues than identitarian issues. Solve the basic needs first, and when everyone has a fair piece of our wealthy country's economic pie, I suspect we will find the identity issues are easier to address, with broader support.

balls187 1y ago

> must everything about it be judged entirely on the last twelve months of one guys mania? Yes, unfortunately. Build a thousand bridges...

saubeidl 1y ago

There is no apolitical, there never was. To say that you're apolitical is just an implicit endorsement of the status quo, coming from a place of privilege.

FireBeyond 1y ago
I've yet to meet a person who both says they are "apolitical" and are more liberal in their perspectives. It's like centerists. It's funny how when you push at them they reveal more and more right-leaning opinions. Libertarians should, ostensibly, probably have a fairly split voting history, but yet it's always much more right-leaning too.

01100011 1y ago

Is it really Godwin's Law if the guy literally performed a public Nazi salute?

programable 1y ago
Not only that, Musk eagerly promoted Tucker Carlson's interview with a Nazi who said the murder of Jews in concentration camps was "humane", and that Winston Churchill was the "chief villain" of WW2.

hiddencost 1y ago

Idk man he's staked his reputation on eliminating my trans family from America. Get fucked.

breve 1y ago

> must everything about it be judged entirely on the last twelve months of one guys mania The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

ajross 1y ago
Yeah, but "the standard" in this case is basically "everyone's slightly racist drunk uncle". You or I might disagree with that politics but it's absolutely not "uncommon", at all. In fact there's nothing particularly notable about the guy's opinions at all absent the financial force behind them. So... are we cancelling the guy for his opinions or engaging in praxis trying to eliminate his ideology's funding? Very different moral calculus, IMHO, and neither seems very well justified (or implemented[1]) by the attitude I'm seeing in these debates. [1] I mean, downvoting your fellow lefty traveller in a tiff over the car he drives might feel good but it's clearly not having the desired effect of changing Musk's politics. I am not your enemy, basically. Why are you fighting with the guy who's already voting for your candidates?
- postflopclarity 1y ago
  if your slightly racist drunk uncle was the richest man in the world and one of the most politically influential oligarchs in US history, sure.
  - ajross 1y ago
    Right, and I repeat: if this you arguing with drunk uncles, that's not me. If this is you doing praxis and trying to organize, you are aiming at the wrong target by trying to engage with your political allies here on HN. Mostly, I suspect, you're just angry and wanting to blow off steam. Which is fine! But not likely to make either of us feel better.
    - breve 1y ago
      I don't see the point in the mental gymnastics to make excuses for Musk. He's plainly not as you wish him to be. It's much better to simply see him as he is. This is how he is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc It's not great.