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I've worked at two game studios over the years and came away with one takeaway: there won't be a third unless it's my own. There are few more dysfunctional engi

I've worked at two game studios over the years and came away with one takeaway: there won't be a third unless it's my own. There are few more dysfunctional engineering environments on the planet, leading to continual burnout. There is a long line of coders who grew up playing games that want to do that into adulthood, leading to a perverse supply/demand ratio that allows studios to treat their employees like crap under the auspices of "that's how the industry works". I wouldn't buy into it.

motoford 14y ago
This is not limited to game studios, or even software in general. Unfortunately it's everywhere.
- pjmlp 14y ago
  Not really. In most European countries, unions tend to be strong enough to prevent this type of situations in regular IT shops, if you complain about it. Just in the game industry, people tend to avoid to complain, because it is so hard to get into.
  - motoford 14y ago
    Definitely a case of where you live I suppose. I have never heard of a union IT shop here in the states.
    - marvin 14y ago
      Once again, it comes back to the meaning of the word "union" in the US versus Europe. Labor unions in Europe usually have less focus on enforcing a monopoly on labor and more focus on having good, safe conditions for sustainable work, arranging courses and sharing experiences, etc. For example, pretty much all Norwegian IT workers are organized either through Tekna (union for Masters degree holders in technical subjects) or NITO (union for engineers and technical personnel). Being organized in such a community is a huge bonus when it comes to bargaining power and decreasing the leverage employers have due to ignorance or lack of information on salaries, etc. This comes in addition to all the advantages you get for having easy access to like-minded professionals.
      - mercurial 14y ago
        I think it really depends on where you live. Nordic countries (just moved to DK) seem heavily unionized, while it's much less prevalent in the French IT sector, for instance.
  - enjo 14y ago
    You clearly have never experienced Symbian or Nokia development efforts. Both places where complete blood-baths, at least from my perspective as an outsider working pretty closely with teams inside of both companies.
    - da02 14y ago
      Have you written about it? I never get tired of hearing about (metaphorical) death marches and blood-baths in different industries.
    - pjmlp 14y ago
      Actually I used to work for that Finnish company. But here in Germany we have good unions that are able to say _stop_. So those blood-baths had limited extent here.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  It's a question of degree. Video game development does have a very different supply/demand environment going for it than other kinds of software development. Where I am (both geographically and in my career) I'm treated pretty darn well.
- kokey 14y ago
  Not everywhere, just everywhere where supply of people wanting to work in a particular industry far outstrips demand. The entertainment industries always had this (music, film, television, computer games) as well as politics (where you have a lot of unpaid interns) and also girls wanting to become flight attendants (Ryanair makes you pay for the training etc.) In industries where skills are in demand, employers have the treat these skills carefully or lose them to someone else. This includes fast growing industries (Linux, web, mobile) and skills that are both hard and really unsexy to obtain.
  - brazzy 14y ago
    > skills that are both hard and really unsexy to obtain. Perfect example: SAP consulting.
- willyt 14y ago
  It's very prevalent in architecture.
Cowen 14y ago
When I was coming out of high school, I was trying to decide whether or not I should go to Digipen or a "real" university. Being a video game designer had been the only career dream I'd ever known, so Digipen had a lot working in its favor. Fortunately, my dad made sure that I contacted a local game designer before I committed to Digipen. He told me the most important thing I could do if I wanted to succeed was not become a programmer, but to study English instead. He said programmers were considered a dime-a-dozen by most studios, were often treated terribly, and truthfully, weren't exactly the most pleasant of people to begin with. By developing a background in English and creative writing, I would immediately give myself a leg up over most of my competition and my career prospects as a game developer would be significantly better off for it. This left me with a conundrum: what did I want to do more? Write stories and be treated well or write code and be treated like dirt? Neither. I wanted to write code and be treated well (crazy, I know). I still write stories on my own, and I'm in the process of developing my own game, but every time I read one of these stories, I feel much better about my choice to skip professional game development as a career path.
- DavidAdams 14y ago
  The most successful game developer I know was half way through a masters degree in English when he dropped out to dedicate himself to being a game addict. But he went on to co-found a couple of game companies and now works at Blizzard. Another testimonial for studying English!
InclinedPlane 14y ago
Indeed. I'd say that in terms of sane basic development and operational processes most game studios are about 2 to 3 decades behind the curve relative to the software industry. The continual death march is the norm, for example. This hasn't changed much despite the massive increases in revenue over the years. I suspect it won't change until we see some significant turnover in the industry.
MartinCron 14y ago
Not only that, but even if you weren't chronically underpaid and mistreated, working on games isn't all that much more fun than working on other stuff. It's still work, and having a good manager, good tools, and good comrades matter a lot more than the domain you're working in. Also, there's burnout. I spent around a year working on a turn-based strategy game, and I now hate turn-based strategy games with a passion.
erickhill 14y ago
Alongside gaming, this is also particularly visible in the Hollywood FX/motion-graphics/design studios in Los Angeles. They eagerly eat their own young as long as the talent is there. And a with plethora of excellent art colleges right down the street continually pumping out very capable and ready-to-work talent, it's a vicious cycle. But, to be fair, the kids are living out their dreams through their art. So, from their perspective, it's worth it (until they want to start a family).
mikecuesta 14y ago
I've heard this same point made again and again for several years now. It's really a shame (or opportunity).
- mikle 14y ago
  It is a huge opportunity.

motoford 14y ago

This is not limited to game studios, or even software in general. Unfortunately it's everywhere.

pjmlp 14y ago
Not really. In most European countries, unions tend to be strong enough to prevent this type of situations in regular IT shops, if you complain about it. Just in the game industry, people tend to avoid to complain, because it is so hard to get into.
- motoford 14y ago
  Definitely a case of where you live I suppose. I have never heard of a union IT shop here in the states.
  - marvin 14y ago
    Once again, it comes back to the meaning of the word "union" in the US versus Europe. Labor unions in Europe usually have less focus on enforcing a monopoly on labor and more focus on having good, safe conditions for sustainable work, arranging courses and sharing experiences, etc. For example, pretty much all Norwegian IT workers are organized either through Tekna (union for Masters degree holders in technical subjects) or NITO (union for engineers and technical personnel). Being organized in such a community is a huge bonus when it comes to bargaining power and decreasing the leverage employers have due to ignorance or lack of information on salaries, etc. This comes in addition to all the advantages you get for having easy access to like-minded professionals.
    - mercurial 14y ago
      I think it really depends on where you live. Nordic countries (just moved to DK) seem heavily unionized, while it's much less prevalent in the French IT sector, for instance.
- enjo 14y ago
  You clearly have never experienced Symbian or Nokia development efforts. Both places where complete blood-baths, at least from my perspective as an outsider working pretty closely with teams inside of both companies.
  - da02 14y ago
    Have you written about it? I never get tired of hearing about (metaphorical) death marches and blood-baths in different industries.
  - pjmlp 14y ago
    Actually I used to work for that Finnish company. But here in Germany we have good unions that are able to say _stop_. So those blood-baths had limited extent here.
MartinCron 14y ago
It's a question of degree. Video game development does have a very different supply/demand environment going for it than other kinds of software development. Where I am (both geographically and in my career) I'm treated pretty darn well.
kokey 14y ago
Not everywhere, just everywhere where supply of people wanting to work in a particular industry far outstrips demand. The entertainment industries always had this (music, film, television, computer games) as well as politics (where you have a lot of unpaid interns) and also girls wanting to become flight attendants (Ryanair makes you pay for the training etc.) In industries where skills are in demand, employers have the treat these skills carefully or lose them to someone else. This includes fast growing industries (Linux, web, mobile) and skills that are both hard and really unsexy to obtain.
- brazzy 14y ago
  > skills that are both hard and really unsexy to obtain. Perfect example: SAP consulting.
willyt 14y ago
It's very prevalent in architecture.

Cowen 14y ago

When I was coming out of high school, I was trying to decide whether or not I should go to Digipen or a "real" university. Being a video game designer had been the only career dream I'd ever known, so Digipen had a lot working in its favor. Fortunately, my dad made sure that I contacted a local game designer before I committed to Digipen. He told me the most important thing I could do if I wanted to succeed was not become a programmer, but to study English instead. He said programmers were considered a dime-a-dozen by most studios, were often treated terribly, and truthfully, weren't exactly the most pleasant of people to begin with. By developing a background in English and creative writing, I would immediately give myself a leg up over most of my competition and my career prospects as a game developer would be significantly better off for it. This left me with a conundrum: what did I want to do more? Write stories and be treated well or write code and be treated like dirt? Neither. I wanted to write code and be treated well (crazy, I know). I still write stories on my own, and I'm in the process of developing my own game, but every time I read one of these stories, I feel much better about my choice to skip professional game development as a career path.

DavidAdams 14y ago
The most successful game developer I know was half way through a masters degree in English when he dropped out to dedicate himself to being a game addict. But he went on to co-found a couple of game companies and now works at Blizzard. Another testimonial for studying English!

InclinedPlane 14y ago

Indeed. I'd say that in terms of sane basic development and operational processes most game studios are about 2 to 3 decades behind the curve relative to the software industry. The continual death march is the norm, for example. This hasn't changed much despite the massive increases in revenue over the years. I suspect it won't change until we see some significant turnover in the industry.

MartinCron 14y ago

Not only that, but even if you weren't chronically underpaid and mistreated, working on games isn't all that much more fun than working on other stuff. It's still work, and having a good manager, good tools, and good comrades matter a lot more than the domain you're working in. Also, there's burnout. I spent around a year working on a turn-based strategy game, and I now hate turn-based strategy games with a passion.

erickhill 14y ago

Alongside gaming, this is also particularly visible in the Hollywood FX/motion-graphics/design studios in Los Angeles. They eagerly eat their own young as long as the talent is there. And a with plethora of excellent art colleges right down the street continually pumping out very capable and ready-to-work talent, it's a vicious cycle. But, to be fair, the kids are living out their dreams through their art. So, from their perspective, it's worth it (until they want to start a family).

mikecuesta 14y ago

I've heard this same point made again and again for several years now. It's really a shame (or opportunity).

mikle 14y ago
It is a huge opportunity.