5 ms·

The dominant user feedback is the hard statistics on how rarely it's used. You can't trim the space of "users" to just "people who already adopted the technolo

The dominant user feedback is the hard statistics on how rarely it's used. You can't trim the space of "users" to just "people who already adopted the technology" in the context of the cost of browser support.

dpark 1y ago
“Everyone who uses the blink tag agrees it’s critical functionality.”
righthand 1y ago
Yes excellent way to continue to diminish users of tech you don’t agree with. “The people who actually use it are wrong and don’t matter!”
- shadowgovt 1y ago
  I'm not personally in the business of maintaining a browser. But if I were, and I were looking to decrease cost of maintenance, "This entire rendering framework that supports a 0.02% use case" would be an outlier for chopping-block consideration. Not all corner-case features match that combination of cost-to-maintain and adoption (after, what, decades at this point?). We wouldn't be arguing the point if the feature in question were fax machine support, right?
  - righthand 1y ago
    Yes we would because people still use fax machines. I don’t understand this “everything must be a business metric because it can, therefor if I can whittle any feature as a small minority, I am forever correct and just in destroying said technology. Look at smart and savvy I am.” Totally brain dead.
    - dpark 1y ago
      Are browser manufacturers required to support features forever no matter how low the usage is? Do you still mourn for the loss of Gopher support?
      - righthand 1y ago
        Yes I mourn the loss of Gopher, RSS, XML, etc. Browser developers don’t have to do shit but it’s against the idea of an open web to kill off technology, especially one that’s A PART OF THE HTML STANDARD. You love a closed web. That’s why you’re backing Google and arguing for this. I can’t change that there are so many weak minded “yes daddy Google” people in the world. All I can do is advocate we support many technologies and ideas. The world you are advocating sounds locked down and uninteresting.
        shadowgovt 1y ago
        Practically speaking, what does "open web" vs. "Closed web" mean in this context? Is "open web" just "maximally complies with the w3c standard?"
        righthand 1y ago
        Open web means popular browsers supporting a wide range of technologies that institutions, businesses, and people use. Not: popular browsers needle through technologies and tell everyone they know best Does that make sense? Openess on the web isn’t a new term or concept so I’m not sure what’s confusing. It’s certainly not killing off technologies people are using. What is open web to you? “Overpaid Mba at Google says this is best so you better fall in line.”
        shadowgovt 1y ago
        Given that the thing we want to support can be supported via server-side translation, client-side translation in JavaScript, or automatic detection and translation via a third-party plugin in JavaScript... What bearing on the open web does it have to preserve this functionality as a JavaScript-accessible API built into the browser? I don't see how removing this API harms the open web. I do see how it imposes some nonzero cost on website maintainers to adapt to the removal of the API, and I respect that cost is nonzero. ... but I also watched OpenGL evolve into OpenGL ES and the end result was a far better API than we started with. I don't think XSLTProcessor joining document.defaultCharset in the history books is damage to the open web. ETA: And not that it matters over-much, but the "overpaid Mba" is an electrical engineering Ph.D who came to software via sensor manufacturing, so if you're going to attempt to insult someone's training, maybe get it right? Not that he'd be wrong if he were an Mba either, mind.

dpark 1y ago

“Everyone who uses the blink tag agrees it’s critical functionality.”

righthand 1y ago

Yes excellent way to continue to diminish users of tech you don’t agree with. “The people who actually use it are wrong and don’t matter!”

shadowgovt 1y ago
I'm not personally in the business of maintaining a browser. But if I were, and I were looking to decrease cost of maintenance, "This entire rendering framework that supports a 0.02% use case" would be an outlier for chopping-block consideration. Not all corner-case features match that combination of cost-to-maintain and adoption (after, what, decades at this point?). We wouldn't be arguing the point if the feature in question were fax machine support, right?
- righthand 1y ago
  Yes we would because people still use fax machines. I don’t understand this “everything must be a business metric because it can, therefor if I can whittle any feature as a small minority, I am forever correct and just in destroying said technology. Look at smart and savvy I am.” Totally brain dead.
  - dpark 1y ago
    Are browser manufacturers required to support features forever no matter how low the usage is? Do you still mourn for the loss of Gopher support?
    - righthand 1y ago
      Yes I mourn the loss of Gopher, RSS, XML, etc. Browser developers don’t have to do shit but it’s against the idea of an open web to kill off technology, especially one that’s A PART OF THE HTML STANDARD. You love a closed web. That’s why you’re backing Google and arguing for this. I can’t change that there are so many weak minded “yes daddy Google” people in the world. All I can do is advocate we support many technologies and ideas. The world you are advocating sounds locked down and uninteresting.
      - shadowgovt 1y ago
        Practically speaking, what does "open web" vs. "Closed web" mean in this context? Is "open web" just "maximally complies with the w3c standard?"
        righthand 1y ago
        Open web means popular browsers supporting a wide range of technologies that institutions, businesses, and people use. Not: popular browsers needle through technologies and tell everyone they know best Does that make sense? Openess on the web isn’t a new term or concept so I’m not sure what’s confusing. It’s certainly not killing off technologies people are using. What is open web to you? “Overpaid Mba at Google says this is best so you better fall in line.”
        shadowgovt 1y ago
        Given that the thing we want to support can be supported via server-side translation, client-side translation in JavaScript, or automatic detection and translation via a third-party plugin in JavaScript... What bearing on the open web does it have to preserve this functionality as a JavaScript-accessible API built into the browser? I don't see how removing this API harms the open web. I do see how it imposes some nonzero cost on website maintainers to adapt to the removal of the API, and I respect that cost is nonzero. ... but I also watched OpenGL evolve into OpenGL ES and the end result was a far better API than we started with. I don't think XSLTProcessor joining document.defaultCharset in the history books is damage to the open web. ETA: And not that it matters over-much, but the "overpaid Mba" is an electrical engineering Ph.D who came to software via sensor manufacturing, so if you're going to attempt to insult someone's training, maybe get it right? Not that he'd be wrong if he were an Mba either, mind.