4 ms·

Did That Rent-To-Own Computer Spy on You?

16 points by vectorbunny 14y ago

adambratt 14y ago
I'm not super well versed in the inner workings of laptop webcams but how is it possible to disable the "webcam on" LED from software? Shouldn't the LED's be controlled on the hardware side to make it impossible to turn on the webcam without having an LED show up? Having software control the LED is only making it easier for people to keep using laptops as remote spying devices. Granted some industrious peeping tom could always take the laptop apart and disable the LED from the hardware side, but that takes a lot more work than just downloading some software that will do it for you.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  That is how all webcams should work, but of course there is nothing forcing manufactures to be sensible.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  The other question is that since its a rental how hard is it to disable the fact that the LED is on? My philosophy is that no webcam can see through masking tape :-)
  - mindslight 14y ago
    Apparently (at least some types of) electrical tape are transparent to near IR. (That sure took some revisiting of assumptions to diagnose why the rotation sync was no longer working)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- TheAmazingIdiot 14y ago
  Many a times, led ON is done in software as a digital output. Secondly, I can imagine if rent to own places turned on the camera whenever the computer was on, people would just get used to it. Make it normal and nobody doubts you. Thirdly, I would say that most of the people using rent to own services aren't interested in the inner workings of computer hardware, or even understand basic computer topics. To these people, it is a tool required by school, work, or casual use. Even if you told them that it would record you, they'd not have an idea to stop it, perhaps other than tape. And tape doesn't stop audio recording, or remote takeover software.
- stephengillie 14y ago
  I'm not aware of a "webcam on" LED on most laptop webcams - as far as I know, a webcam is just a sensor that picks up light. Some smartphones have an LED for flash next to the webcam, but most don't. I've owned webcams that had no LEDs on them whatsoever, notably Logitech webcams from 2002. Did the article say something about an LED being disabled? If so, I missed it. I think the issue is that anti-theft software was intentionally activated, which turned the webcam on and streamed it to another location, where store employees indulged their voyeurism.
  - mikeash 14y ago
    MacBooks all have a green LED next to the webcam which comes on when it's activated so you can tell if it's trying to spy on you. Lots of other laptops do as well, although I'm not sure how common it is outside the Mac world.
    - lurkinggrue 14y ago
      And that was disable via software in a recent scandal with schools spying on kids: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9158818/Pennsylvania_schools_spying_on_students_using_laptop_webcams_claims_lawsuit http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9158818/Pennsylvania_... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_... On the laptops the LED was hardwired to camera power but the software go around it by momentary activating the camera and taking pictures. You would only get a rather slight flicker occasionally.
  - Bjartr 14y ago
    Many laptops with webcams built into them have an LED too
- s_henry_paulson 14y ago
  I don't see anything that suggests the LEDs were disabled. Did I miss something? My guess is that the LEDs weren't disabled, and that's how they got caught. Either that or they physically opened the laptop and disabled the light entirely before renting it out.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  It should, but my laptop doesn't even come with a LED and turning on the camera causes no visible changes. I have considered putting some aluminum foil in front of it, though.
mattstreet 14y ago
Everyone worries about their webcams but most laptops have built in mics and most of them don't have an LED for that at all...
dx4100 14y ago
I guess the difference between them and Facebook is that you consent to Facebook spying on you...

16 points by vectorbunny 14y ago

I'm not super well versed in the inner workings of laptop webcams but how is it possible to disable the "webcam on" LED from software? Shouldn't the LED's be controlled on the hardware side to make it impossible to turn on the webcam without having an LED show up? Having software control the LED is only making it easier for people to keep using laptops as remote spying devices. Granted some industrious peeping tom could always take the laptop apart and disable the LED from the hardware side, but that takes a lot more work than just downloading some software that will do it for you.

jlgreco 14y ago
That is how all webcams should work, but of course there is nothing forcing manufactures to be sensible.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
The other question is that since its a rental how hard is it to disable the fact that the LED is on? My philosophy is that no webcam can see through masking tape :-)
- mindslight 14y ago
  Apparently (at least some types of) electrical tape are transparent to near IR. (That sure took some revisiting of assumptions to diagnose why the rotation sync was no longer working)
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
TheAmazingIdiot 14y ago
Many a times, led ON is done in software as a digital output. Secondly, I can imagine if rent to own places turned on the camera whenever the computer was on, people would just get used to it. Make it normal and nobody doubts you. Thirdly, I would say that most of the people using rent to own services aren't interested in the inner workings of computer hardware, or even understand basic computer topics. To these people, it is a tool required by school, work, or casual use. Even if you told them that it would record you, they'd not have an idea to stop it, perhaps other than tape. And tape doesn't stop audio recording, or remote takeover software.
stephengillie 14y ago
I'm not aware of a "webcam on" LED on most laptop webcams - as far as I know, a webcam is just a sensor that picks up light. Some smartphones have an LED for flash next to the webcam, but most don't. I've owned webcams that had no LEDs on them whatsoever, notably Logitech webcams from 2002. Did the article say something about an LED being disabled? If so, I missed it. I think the issue is that anti-theft software was intentionally activated, which turned the webcam on and streamed it to another location, where store employees indulged their voyeurism.
- mikeash 14y ago
  MacBooks all have a green LED next to the webcam which comes on when it's activated so you can tell if it's trying to spy on you. Lots of other laptops do as well, although I'm not sure how common it is outside the Mac world.
  - lurkinggrue 14y ago
    And that was disable via software in a recent scandal with schools spying on kids: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9158818/Pennsylvania_schools_spying_on_students_using_laptop_webcams_claims_lawsuit http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9158818/Pennsylvania_... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_... On the laptops the LED was hardwired to camera power but the software go around it by momentary activating the camera and taking pictures. You would only get a rather slight flicker occasionally.
- Bjartr 14y ago
  Many laptops with webcams built into them have an LED too
s_henry_paulson 14y ago
I don't see anything that suggests the LEDs were disabled. Did I miss something? My guess is that the LEDs weren't disabled, and that's how they got caught. Either that or they physically opened the laptop and disabled the light entirely before renting it out.
tomjen3 14y ago
It should, but my laptop doesn't even come with a LED and turning on the camera causes no visible changes. I have considered putting some aluminum foil in front of it, though.

mattstreet 14y ago

Everyone worries about their webcams but most laptops have built in mics and most of them don't have an LED for that at all...

dx4100 14y ago

I guess the difference between them and Facebook is that you consent to Facebook spying on you...