6 ms·

It’s amazing tech, it’s just a solution looking for a problem. It feels a bit like the original Segway’s over-engineered solution versus cheap Chinese hoverboa

• october8140 1y ago
  I would not describe creating an experience that feels like you are in the room with a group of people, even allowing cross talk, is a solution looking for a problem. I think it's the thing everyone slowing dying on Zoom calls wishes they could have.
  • bigyabai 1y ago
    I disagree. Many of us don't use a headset regularly or carry it with us like a phone or laptop; it is an express inconvenience to use, with only marginal benefits. Businesses won't want one if webcams still do the trick, and users might respond positively but are always priced-out of owning one. If I'm doing work at my desk and I get a Zoom call, there is a 0.00% chance I will go plug in my Vision Pro to answer it. I'm just going to open the app and turn on my webcam, spatial audio be damned.
  • LtWorf 1y ago
    Oh no, they wish to have fewer useless meetings.
• raincole 1y ago
  Why do we have video call meetings when people mostly just listen and the information is carried via audio? Why do we have 4K monitors when 1920x1080 is perfectly fine for 99.999% of use cases? If you look at the world through this lens called "serviceability" you'll think everything is a solution looking for a problem.
  • criddell 1y ago
    > when 1920x1080 is perfectly fine for 99.999% of use cases A lot of people here work with text all day every day and we would rather work with text that looks like it came out of a laser printer than out of a fax machine.
    • zamadatix 1y ago
      Of all places, HN should not be the one to casually conflate resolution and DPI!
      • cpuguy83 1y ago
        But who's going to use such a tiny display that would make 1080p look good?
        • zamadatix 1y ago
          E.g. 1080p on a 15" laptop is still sharper than 4k on a 32" desktop monitor. People do work on both modalities, they talk to the one they use, chaos ensues.
          • cpuguy83 1y ago
            And I am immensely unhappy with my 4K@32. 4K@27 is more tolerable... really miss the 5K@27 I had (other than it was a "smart" monitor which annoyed the hell out of me).
      • teiferer 1y ago
        The comments silently imply that they are talking about the same screen size, so 1920x1200 vs 4K is indeed a conversation about DPI.
        • maccard 1y ago
          I read their comment in the exact opposite way, and that your comment is exactly their point.
• AceJohnny2 1y ago
  I used my VP extensively recently when working remotely. It's not glamorous, but I used Screen Sharing with a Macbook that grants you a virtual ultrawide monitor. Once you're already in VR, it's nice to not have to break out for a meeting, and that's where Personas fit in. It's not a killer app carrying the product, it's a necessary feature making sure there's not a gap in workflow.
  • fsloth 1y ago
    Ah, right! Because you can’t videoconference with the headset on. Thank you! Now I get it! So it’s sort of a stopgap solution before the ar glasses are small enough to do actual video calls without looking silly?
    • maianhvu 1y ago
      You're thinking of a world where people would still use a computer with a webcam pointed at their face while doing video calls. For me personally, I'm seeing a world where the headset is all that we need. So no, Persona is not a stopgap solution, it's an end in itself, and in its current state it's already pretty damn good.
      • fsloth 1y ago
        Actually I'm thinking of a world where the masses accept an AR headset once it's as light as typical eye glasses. And before most people have these, the calls will be video. But I would be happy to be wrong!
    • stevage 1y ago
      I can imagine for certain niche use cases it really is the killer app though. Like couples in long distance relationships, certain kinds of consultants etc.
  • dangus 1y ago
    I think this explanation makes the situation sound even worse. The vision pro’s overall productivity solution is inferior to existing, cheaper technology, and it has to be supplemented by a solution to a problem created by its own design. Essentially you’re saying that after putting on a double headband device that wrecks my hair, gets me sweaty, strains my neck with weight, and fucks up my makeup, I now have to use a workaround fake avatar because the tech bros who made this product had to say “oh shit, if you have a headset on you can’t be on camera!” For $3500 I can be in real reality and be surrounded by higher resolution professional monitors and just show my real self on camera instead.
• osaariki 1y ago
  I live half way across the world from my folks so I don’t see them often. I’d love something that gives me a greater sense of presence than a video call can give.
  • alt227 1y ago
    Do you believe that seeing a computer generated picture of them is more lifelike than an actual video of them talking to you live?
    • skygazer 1y ago
      By firsthand reports of AVP users, it is.. apparently it feels like a real presence in your space, like hanging out in person.. and their recollections of the conversations weren’t of calls but of visits. The main downside being that there are so few other friend/family users, because it’s prohibitively expensive, niche, and geeky, and those that do these VR calls still do them infrequently because it’s a hassle to break out the device if you don’t use it regularly, and uncomfortable to wear for too long, let alone they typically need to coordinate calls in advance. Still, if I were to have a long-distance relationship with a tolerant partner, or one of us traveled frequently or for long periods, I would be tempted to consider these so we could watch a show or movie and hang out despite the distance.
• boogieknite 1y ago
  yes and to a degree which i find particularly interesting. its never going to happen because of your example i prefer working in my vp and see a possible world where vp makes my remote team collaborate as if were in the office, from the comfort of the most ergonomic location in my house it solves this problem and 0.0001% of people are dorks like me who try and say, "they did it" while the rest of the world keeps going to work as before all of the tech problems were solvable. people simply dont want to put a thing on their face and i think thats unsolvable
• quitit 1y ago
  I disagree, because it answers a pretty simple question: How to be present in a video call when you're using the headset. To me it would be a shortcoming of the device if I couldn't show me and the thing I'm working on at the same time.
  • dangus 1y ago
    You have to back up from that question. “How to be present in a video call” is already an answered question. The “when you’re using the headset” part is the issue. Why are we using the headset? What are the benefits? Why am I making these tradeoffs like messing up my hair, putting a heavy device on my head, messing up my makeup, etc. This is like saying “The Segway had advanced self-leveling to solve the problem of how to balance when you’re on an upright two wheel device”. But why are you on an upright two wheel device? Why not just add a third wheel? Why not ride a bicycle? Why not ride a scooter? The solution is really cool and technologically advanced but it doesn’t actually solve anything besides an artificially introduced problem.
    • quitit 1y ago
      Not really, because this misses the premise of why the device itself is useful. VR/AR headsets are useful for working on and demonstrating many things that we've had to compromise to fit into a 2D paradigm. Being able to be present with that 3D model has clear advantages over using, for example, a mouse with a 2D equivalent or a 3D projection. Having to justify how the 3rd dimension is useful is probably a conversation where one party is not engaging in good faith. The segway analogue is also pretty poor considering how useful self-balancing mobility devices have proven to be - including those which only possess a single wheel.
      • dangus 1y ago
        These are nice words that don’t reflect reality. By most accounts the Vision Pro hasn’t even cracked a million sales. And that’s the best productivity-focused headset on the market. You can say that this is a really amazing paradigm shift but if it was people would be lining up to buy it.
• pndy 1y ago
  I'm curious about practical application in everyday life of these avatars - but in the real life, not examples provided by marketing department. With that price Vision Pro still feels like a toy for wealthy people, or perhaps for CEOs of companies who can afford conferences in virtual environment. But then exactly, why? Majority of world tested during pandemic video calls, conferences and all sorts of other activities like virtual crowds for tv programs (pretty sure British panel shows shown grids of people as a substitute for studio audience). News services were inviting their guests by video calls when Skype was still around.
• detritus 1y ago
  I always viewed the current generations of 'cheap Chinese hovebords' etc being a direct descendant of the Segway, and that Kamen and his believers weren't quite as ridiculous as we thought them at the time - they were just ahead of their time and expecting too much from too low a point in the technology curve.
  • dangus 1y ago
    They had the right idea but over-engineered the solution. They could never cut the price down because of it. The knockoffs used much simpler ways to balance yourself, including just changing the form factor to something more conventional that doesn’t even need balance correction (scooters and e-bikes).
• atcon 1y ago
  Many use cases come to mind. If (retinal?) identities were private, encrypted, and “anonymized” in handshake: web browsing without captchas, anubis, bot tests, etc. (“human only” internet, maybe like Berners-Lee’s “semantic web” idea [1][2]) Non “anonymized”: non-jury court and arbitration appearances (with expansion of judges to clear backlogs [3]) medical checkups and social care (eg neurocognitive checkups for elderly, social services checkins esp. children, checkins for depressed or isolated needing offwork social interactions, etc.) bureaucratic appointments (customer service by humans, DMV, building permits, licenses, etc.) web browsing for routine tasks without logins (banks, email, etc) [1] <https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/10/06/tim-berners-lee-invented-the-world-wide-web-now-he-wants-to-save-it https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/10/06/tim-berners-le...> [2] <https://newtfire.org/courses/introDH/BrnrsLeeIntrnt-Lucas-NwYrkr-2025.pdf https://newtfire.org/courses/introDH/BrnrsLeeIntrnt-Lucas-Nw...> [3] <https://nysfocus.com/2025/05/30/uncap-justice-act-new-york-court-backlog https://nysfocus.com/2025/05/30/uncap-justice-act-new-york-c...>
  • dangus 1y ago
    Let’s run down your use cases: Human-only Internet: why choose this implementation over something simpler? Surely there’s a simpler way to prove you’re human that doesn’t involve 3D avatar construction on a head-worn display that screws up your hair and makeup. [1] E.g., an Apple Watch-like device can verify you have a real pulse and oxygen in your blood. Court: solution is already in place, which is showing up to a physical courtroom. Clearing backlogs can be done without a technological solution, it’s more of a process and staffing problem. Moving the judges from a court to a home office doesn’t magically make them clear cases faster. Medical checkups: phone selfie camera Bureaucratic appointments: solution in place, physical building, or many of these offer virtual appointments already over a webcam. Web browsing without logins: passkeys, FaceID, fingerprint [1] yet another male-designed tech bro product that never considered the concerns of the majority of the population.
    • atcon 1y ago
      You raise fair points. I'd also prefer a simpler solution for a human-only internet, but nothing has really worked so far. Bloomberg issued secure cards with fingerprint pads that you held up to the monitor to retrieve credentials to their system, so maybe a simpler physical authenticator could work at scale. I'm not sure how secure a pulsometer would be, but hacking an apple headset chip and retinal pattern seem harder. Court: disagree in part. More judges are needed to address the severe backlogs, but as an example NYS judges oppose expansion (see [3] from previous post). A lot of calendar time is spent appearing before judges around a city (they're not all in one area) for motion hearings and the like despite all documents being electronically submitted. Also, there are frequent reschedulings when one party can't physically appear. Some state judges allow teleconference, but a lot don't. Appellate and federal courts rarely. Checkups and social services: some secure way of monitoring client interactions and outcomes is needed. In Los Angeles, the homeless services agency has been criticized by a federal judge for incompetence [1] and more than half of the child-prostitutes in a notorious corridor were found to be "missing" from the foster system [2]. Maybe headsets are not the best answer, but govt agencies and social service NGOs need to record evidence of their efforts for accountability. [1] <https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-03-31/los-angeles-homeless-agency-under-fire https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-03-31/los-ange...> [2] <https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/26/magazine/sex-trafficking-girls-la-figueroa.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/26/magazine/sex-trafficking-...>