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I think you're misreading my reply. It's not that real world innovation isn't tested and iterated on, quite the opposite. The Wright Brothers are exactly that

I think you're misreading my reply. It's not that real world innovation isn't tested and iterated on, quite the opposite. The Wright Brothers are exactly that model and I don't dispute that at all. What I'm drawing a distinction between is this approach to innovation, which is necessarily iterative and based on incremental improvements to prior art, and another approach which makes larger conceptual leaps and may not have obvious initial practicality. I described these two approaches as being roughly comparable to "business and research", although I admit that's a somewhat crude dichotomy. It is the latter camp that I think Victor falls in. Both are relevant. For every Wright Brothers you also have a Tim Berners Lee, whose invention was developed in an international research laboratory (not a startup) and was largely ingored by the public for several years. It took the perfect storm of the late 90s Internet boom for the web to develop into the thing we recognize today. In any case, it's not as though Victor has been doing nothing but writing papers and photoshopping mockups. If you look for them, you can find videos of him giving talks where he is demonstrating real, live software that implements his ideas. He has been refining them in practice for several years now, and others (such as Light Table's Chris Granger) are doing the same. The question is whether they will catch on, and the jury is still out as far as that's concerned.

russelluresti 14y ago
You're right, I did misread your reply - I originally thought you said it was innovation that took laboratory time. Though, now that you've explained it further, I'm still not sure I agree with the concept. Pure research follows a specific method - you form ideas, form a hypothesis, create an experiment, and test your hypothesis, then revise and test again. There is nothing, ever, that is not tested. Though, you can certainly make the argument that a few of Bret's projects (such as Tangle) work as small-scale experiments for testing his larger ideas. I may actually concede that point; though it is not exactly the big picture he's talking about, it does test the tools he suggests using to achieve that big picture. And, I have seen the talks where he demonstrates his software. I just wish he would make it available (open source, sell it, whatever) so that others could use it and test it. Wouldn't you like to try out those tools he shows?
- faceyspacey 14y ago
  you again, Russel ;). come on man. don't you get it: his point is to inspire the likes of us. It's up to you and I to do something with this. If you're not the one up to the task, fine, but stop putting forth a mindset that won't inspire others to do something with this, e.g. TEST IT! also, the stuff will work. It's dead obvious that it's the future. Take a step back, take a breath, open your mind and stop trying to backup your initial point about "where's the evidence?" and just agree this is magical and some big things will come out of it. if you can't see that, and can't allow yourself to be wrong for a second, then fine, you're a regular guy--not someone we expect to see making the amazing startups that will put Bret Victor's stuff to use.

russelluresti 14y ago

You're right, I did misread your reply - I originally thought you said it was innovation that took laboratory time. Though, now that you've explained it further, I'm still not sure I agree with the concept. Pure research follows a specific method - you form ideas, form a hypothesis, create an experiment, and test your hypothesis, then revise and test again. There is nothing, ever, that is not tested. Though, you can certainly make the argument that a few of Bret's projects (such as Tangle) work as small-scale experiments for testing his larger ideas. I may actually concede that point; though it is not exactly the big picture he's talking about, it does test the tools he suggests using to achieve that big picture. And, I have seen the talks where he demonstrates his software. I just wish he would make it available (open source, sell it, whatever) so that others could use it and test it. Wouldn't you like to try out those tools he shows?

faceyspacey 14y ago
you again, Russel ;). come on man. don't you get it: his point is to inspire the likes of us. It's up to you and I to do something with this. If you're not the one up to the task, fine, but stop putting forth a mindset that won't inspire others to do something with this, e.g. TEST IT! also, the stuff will work. It's dead obvious that it's the future. Take a step back, take a breath, open your mind and stop trying to backup your initial point about "where's the evidence?" and just agree this is magical and some big things will come out of it. if you can't see that, and can't allow yourself to be wrong for a second, then fine, you're a regular guy--not someone we expect to see making the amazing startups that will put Bret Victor's stuff to use.