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> Why would we care what they think? Well, with the exception of Hong Kong, which isn't exactly a farming mecca, Singapore, and Eswatini, all other English spe

by 9rx 1y ago

> Why would we care what they think? Well, with the exception of Hong Kong, which isn't exactly a farming mecca, Singapore, and Eswatini, all other English speaking countries are democratic. Which means that the government and the people are the very same thing, so when the people have decided that's what farmer is, that's what farmer is to basically everyone (there are always outliers who like to go against the grain, of course). > we can just ask the people what the words mean. There's an old saying: "Actions speak louder than words". People will make up bullshit if you ask them. More revealing is to look at how people actually use the word "farmer" in practice. And it turns out that we do — and then record that use in a book known as the dictionary. Like I said in an earlier comment, it echoes the same. > And the people say that 'farmer' includes folks doing the actual cultivation Sure. There are also people who use the word "farmer" to refer to someone who creates web/social media content. But these are outlier uses. Obviously all words have been made up on the spot, and can be made up on the spot (again) any time you so wish. You've not stumbled upon any kind of revelation there. But in going that way you've made it clear that you're not paying attention to the discussion that is taking place.

ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
> democratic. Which means that the government and the people are the very same thing This is an unrealistic, idealistic assumption which evidence does not bear out. Examples: Ask people whether they think "farmer" includes non-owning cultivators; Look at majorities voting and losing due to things like the electoral college; Look at gerrymandering seeking to minimize government representation of the people. If the government and the people are indeed the very same thing, then we can just ask the people, because according to you, the government agrees with the people anyways, or it is undemocratic. > People will make up bullshit if you ask them. In general, this goes double for governments. As for this example, it's impossible for the majority of people to "make up bullshit" for word meaning, because the meaning of a word is what most people say it is. On the other hand, it's totally possible for a government to "make up bullshit" in that case. > There are also people who use the word "farmer" to refer to someone who creates web/social media content. There are also people (perhaps even governments!) who exclude non-owning cultivators from their personal definition of "farmer", but that is an outlier use, in some cases only applicable in niche contexts, like tax law. Most people do not use such a definition. > you're not paying attention to the discussion that is taking place Please don't attack other posters. That behavior is perhaps better suited for more well-known social media sites. You are smart and capable of making your point without attempting to detract from me as a person.
- 9rx 1y ago
  > Ask people what they think "farming" includes non-owning cultivators "Farming" usually refers to all that surrounds the entire activity. That includes farmers, farmhands, supportive family, etc. But we've been talking about "farmer". With that, I'll assume you accidentally mistyped "farmer". Let's take a look at a practical example. Soybean and cattle farmers have recently been all over the news with stories about their current low/high profitability. Do the masses watching the news understand these people as being the hired hands out in the field/in the barn collecting a fixed wage? Or do they understand these people as being the business owner with a product to sell? > because the meaning of a word is what most people say it is. Not quite. The meaning of the word is how the speaker (or author) has decided to use it. But, yes, since we are currently talking about what most people consider the word to mean as a general rule, not a specific person using it in a particular way, "farmer" is deemed to be the business owner. We know this not only from anecdotal observation but also because there are people whose job it is to determine how people use words and that is what they have determined is most common. The game chose to use the word differently, in a less traditional way, but the discussion has made it clear that we aren't talking about that specific instance. Going there would be nonsensical. > Please don't attack other posters. The computer screen you are looking at cannot attack you. Perhaps what you really mean is that your emotions are leaving you to feel unpleasant? These feelings stem from the mind's view of the world not matching the reality it is starting to understand. This confusion, for want of a better word, can feel like an attack of sorts. However, it does not stem from external force. It is an internal process. When this happens, it is time for personal introspection.
  - gsf_emergency_4 1y ago
    Google AI: Farmer comes from the Middle English word ferme, meaning "rent" or "fixed payment," which in turn comes from the Anglo-French fermer ("to rent") and medieval Latin firma. These terms are ultimately rooted in the Latin word firmus, meaning "strong" or "firm". The modern agricultural meaning developed because land was often held under a fixed-payment lease, or "fee farm," and since most such land was agricultural, the terms became synonymous. Feels to me that demos who disagree tend to make the politically-expedient substitute "peasant" without thinking too much about it some French folks might also think of tax-collectors..

by 9rx 1y ago

ImPostingOnHN 1y ago

> democratic. Which means that the government and the people are the very same thing This is an unrealistic, idealistic assumption which evidence does not bear out. Examples: Ask people whether they think "farmer" includes non-owning cultivators; Look at majorities voting and losing due to things like the electoral college; Look at gerrymandering seeking to minimize government representation of the people. If the government and the people are indeed the very same thing, then we can just ask the people, because according to you, the government agrees with the people anyways, or it is undemocratic. > People will make up bullshit if you ask them. In general, this goes double for governments. As for this example, it's impossible for the majority of people to "make up bullshit" for word meaning, because the meaning of a word is what most people say it is. On the other hand, it's totally possible for a government to "make up bullshit" in that case. > There are also people who use the word "farmer" to refer to someone who creates web/social media content. There are also people (perhaps even governments!) who exclude non-owning cultivators from their personal definition of "farmer", but that is an outlier use, in some cases only applicable in niche contexts, like tax law. Most people do not use such a definition. > you're not paying attention to the discussion that is taking place Please don't attack other posters. That behavior is perhaps better suited for more well-known social media sites. You are smart and capable of making your point without attempting to detract from me as a person.

9rx 1y ago
> Ask people what they think "farming" includes non-owning cultivators "Farming" usually refers to all that surrounds the entire activity. That includes farmers, farmhands, supportive family, etc. But we've been talking about "farmer". With that, I'll assume you accidentally mistyped "farmer". Let's take a look at a practical example. Soybean and cattle farmers have recently been all over the news with stories about their current low/high profitability. Do the masses watching the news understand these people as being the hired hands out in the field/in the barn collecting a fixed wage? Or do they understand these people as being the business owner with a product to sell? > because the meaning of a word is what most people say it is. Not quite. The meaning of the word is how the speaker (or author) has decided to use it. But, yes, since we are currently talking about what most people consider the word to mean as a general rule, not a specific person using it in a particular way, "farmer" is deemed to be the business owner. We know this not only from anecdotal observation but also because there are people whose job it is to determine how people use words and that is what they have determined is most common. The game chose to use the word differently, in a less traditional way, but the discussion has made it clear that we aren't talking about that specific instance. Going there would be nonsensical. > Please don't attack other posters. The computer screen you are looking at cannot attack you. Perhaps what you really mean is that your emotions are leaving you to feel unpleasant? These feelings stem from the mind's view of the world not matching the reality it is starting to understand. This confusion, for want of a better word, can feel like an attack of sorts. However, it does not stem from external force. It is an internal process. When this happens, it is time for personal introspection.
- gsf_emergency_4 1y ago
  Google AI: Farmer comes from the Middle English word ferme, meaning "rent" or "fixed payment," which in turn comes from the Anglo-French fermer ("to rent") and medieval Latin firma. These terms are ultimately rooted in the Latin word firmus, meaning "strong" or "firm". The modern agricultural meaning developed because land was often held under a fixed-payment lease, or "fee farm," and since most such land was agricultural, the terms became synonymous. Feels to me that demos who disagree tend to make the politically-expedient substitute "peasant" without thinking too much about it some French folks might also think of tax-collectors..