5 ms·

They are in completely different leagues, the Tesla robotaxi vehicle is probably cost 10x less, at least.

by octocop 11mo ago

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
dachworker 11mo ago
Isn't the lesson from the success of TSLA, that you don't compete on price? That's what made Tesla the first successful EV. Because unlike the rest, they didn't try to compete on price and offer a mass market consumer vehicle. Instead they started with a roadster and then a luxury saloon both targeting the upper end of the market. I don't see the point of a budget taxi car. After all even the human driven counterparts tend to be higher end luxury saloons or SUVs.
- LorenDB 11mo ago
  I assume you mean "sedan" rather than "saloon"?
  - dachworker 11mo ago
    It's the British English equivalent.
- madamelic 11mo ago
  Robot Taxis will be competing on price. Whoever can release the lowest cost per mile and most reliable taxi will take lion's share simply because consumers are generally price conscious about transport. Very few will be analyzing the data if two are judged to be 'safe enough', it will come down to price. Companies like BYD and Tesla are positioned well for that if they can get their AV functionality proven out as both are fully integrated car manufacturers. Waymo doesn't have in-house manufacturing and is, to my knowledge, purely software so they have lots of vendors along with a relatively low output of vehicles. Their 2025 and 2026 plan is to build 2,500 new cars per year. Each Waymo car currently costs over $100k. Even if Tesla was pushing out Model Ys as their robotaxi platform, they could flood the market very easily in both scale and price per mile _if_ UFSD (unsupervised FSD) was proven.
  - vel0city 11mo ago
    If Americans were price conscious about transport they wouldn't be driving $60,000, 15mpg, oversized pickup trucks to go drop off their kids at daycare and commute to their office job, they'd be riding the bus. Most Americans don't seem to consider the cost of their transportation in the slightest.
    - Workaccount2 11mo ago
      They do, but they price it in cost per month. Finacialization is what made $65,000 cars "cheap".
    - madamelic 11mo ago
      People who use ride share use more than one app because they can pick the one that is the cheapest. The people who use these will be price conscious. Of course there will be other factors like amenities. Personally, I think 'style' is going to be a non-insignificant factor to it as well. Few normies will want to get out of a 'nerd car' that has bulbous sensors all over it if they can pay a bit more to have a cooler looking ride, it's the Prius effect. The style thing is just my opinion though but price will be the major one. People will tolerate an ugly robotaxi if it is significantly cheaper or more convenient.
      - bryanlarsen 11mo ago
        With ride share you can take the cheap option 99 times out of 100, and then rent a limo for your hot date. And then rent a truck or movers when you need to move something. People buying vehicles usually buy something that covers all their needs, however rare.
    - xnx 11mo ago
      > If Americans were price conscious about transport ... they'd be riding the bus. Have you considered that Americans might value their time differently than you? That might change your equation.
      - 11mo ago
tverbeure 11mo ago
Does that include the cost of a full-time chaperone? That aside, the cost of a Waymo is estimated to be between $150 and $200k. A model 3 based Tesla robotaxi doesn’t cost less than $20k…
- gibolt 11mo ago
  Cost to manufacture is likely around $25k
- Workaccount2 11mo ago
  The reason for the cybercab is to produce an absolute bare bones self driving vehicle for $20kish.
  - tverbeure 11mo ago
    Every Google result says below $30k, not $20k-ish, and we all know the reliability of Tesla’s future looking statements. We’ll see.
don_neufeld 11mo ago
LIDAR, like other technologies, declines in cost over time, has done so substantially, and will continue to do so. Tesla is just on the wrong side of that bet.
4kchiefofstaff 11mo ago
Calculate how much a car can drive (200-400k km), then the avg cost of a car (50k vs. 100k) and the avg taxi route (5-30km). The car itself is a price point of 10 to 40 cent pro km which has impact on the journey for sure but a lot less that it might be the reason. if you tell me, that i can take the saver car and pay 1 euro more with a 20 euro fair, I wouldn't care. Nonetheless, economy of scale has happened already at lidar and continues to happen. If tesla can't get it running properly in bad weather but waymo can, they can also compensate it just by driving at situations were tesla doesn't want to drive. But hey its just brainstorming at this point as tesla is not close enough to waymo to compare it properly. And while waymo exists, plenty of other companies exist too doing this. Nvidia itself will keep building their car platform which will level the playfield even more. Whatever market selfdriving cars are, it will be split between everyone and no tesla will not just 'win' this. It will be a race to the bottom for everyone reducing the revenue to a commodity.
4b11b4 11mo ago
Yeah but, it doesn't work good
xnx 11mo ago
> They are in completely different leagues Agreed. Waymo has a working self-driving vehicle that currently operates in many cities. Tesla has a buggy tech demo in a portion of Austin. > the Tesla robotaxi vehicle is probably cost 10x less, at least. Very unlikely. Waymo vehicles also carry twice as many people.

They are in completely different leagues, the Tesla robotaxi vehicle is probably cost 10x less, at least.

by octocop 11mo ago

They are in completely different leagues, the Tesla robotaxi vehicle is probably cost 10x less, at least.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

dachworker 11mo ago

Isn't the lesson from the success of TSLA, that you don't compete on price? That's what made Tesla the first successful EV. Because unlike the rest, they didn't try to compete on price and offer a mass market consumer vehicle. Instead they started with a roadster and then a luxury saloon both targeting the upper end of the market. I don't see the point of a budget taxi car. After all even the human driven counterparts tend to be higher end luxury saloons or SUVs.

LorenDB 11mo ago
I assume you mean "sedan" rather than "saloon"?
- dachworker 11mo ago
  It's the British English equivalent.
madamelic 11mo ago
Robot Taxis will be competing on price. Whoever can release the lowest cost per mile and most reliable taxi will take lion's share simply because consumers are generally price conscious about transport. Very few will be analyzing the data if two are judged to be 'safe enough', it will come down to price. Companies like BYD and Tesla are positioned well for that if they can get their AV functionality proven out as both are fully integrated car manufacturers. Waymo doesn't have in-house manufacturing and is, to my knowledge, purely software so they have lots of vendors along with a relatively low output of vehicles. Their 2025 and 2026 plan is to build 2,500 new cars per year. Each Waymo car currently costs over $100k. Even if Tesla was pushing out Model Ys as their robotaxi platform, they could flood the market very easily in both scale and price per mile _if_ UFSD (unsupervised FSD) was proven.
- vel0city 11mo ago
  If Americans were price conscious about transport they wouldn't be driving $60,000, 15mpg, oversized pickup trucks to go drop off their kids at daycare and commute to their office job, they'd be riding the bus. Most Americans don't seem to consider the cost of their transportation in the slightest.
  - Workaccount2 11mo ago
    They do, but they price it in cost per month. Finacialization is what made $65,000 cars "cheap".
  - madamelic 11mo ago
    People who use ride share use more than one app because they can pick the one that is the cheapest. The people who use these will be price conscious. Of course there will be other factors like amenities. Personally, I think 'style' is going to be a non-insignificant factor to it as well. Few normies will want to get out of a 'nerd car' that has bulbous sensors all over it if they can pay a bit more to have a cooler looking ride, it's the Prius effect. The style thing is just my opinion though but price will be the major one. People will tolerate an ugly robotaxi if it is significantly cheaper or more convenient.
    - bryanlarsen 11mo ago
      With ride share you can take the cheap option 99 times out of 100, and then rent a limo for your hot date. And then rent a truck or movers when you need to move something. People buying vehicles usually buy something that covers all their needs, however rare.
  - xnx 11mo ago
    > If Americans were price conscious about transport ... they'd be riding the bus. Have you considered that Americans might value their time differently than you? That might change your equation.
    - 11mo ago

tverbeure 11mo ago

Does that include the cost of a full-time chaperone? That aside, the cost of a Waymo is estimated to be between $150 and $200k. A model 3 based Tesla robotaxi doesn’t cost less than $20k…

gibolt 11mo ago
Cost to manufacture is likely around $25k
Workaccount2 11mo ago
The reason for the cybercab is to produce an absolute bare bones self driving vehicle for $20kish.
- tverbeure 11mo ago
  Every Google result says below $30k, not $20k-ish, and we all know the reliability of Tesla’s future looking statements. We’ll see.

don_neufeld 11mo ago

LIDAR, like other technologies, declines in cost over time, has done so substantially, and will continue to do so. Tesla is just on the wrong side of that bet.

4kchiefofstaff 11mo ago

Calculate how much a car can drive (200-400k km), then the avg cost of a car (50k vs. 100k) and the avg taxi route (5-30km). The car itself is a price point of 10 to 40 cent pro km which has impact on the journey for sure but a lot less that it might be the reason. if you tell me, that i can take the saver car and pay 1 euro more with a 20 euro fair, I wouldn't care. Nonetheless, economy of scale has happened already at lidar and continues to happen. If tesla can't get it running properly in bad weather but waymo can, they can also compensate it just by driving at situations were tesla doesn't want to drive. But hey its just brainstorming at this point as tesla is not close enough to waymo to compare it properly. And while waymo exists, plenty of other companies exist too doing this. Nvidia itself will keep building their car platform which will level the playfield even more. Whatever market selfdriving cars are, it will be split between everyone and no tesla will not just 'win' this. It will be a race to the bottom for everyone reducing the revenue to a commodity.

4b11b4 11mo ago

Yeah but, it doesn't work good

xnx 11mo ago

> They are in completely different leagues Agreed. Waymo has a working self-driving vehicle that currently operates in many cities. Tesla has a buggy tech demo in a portion of Austin. > the Tesla robotaxi vehicle is probably cost 10x less, at least. Very unlikely. Waymo vehicles also carry twice as many people.