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Now I didn't like the man or his legacy, but I always find it interesting to compare the HN response for controversial figures' deaths. It's a pretty stark dif

Now I didn't like the man or his legacy, but I always find it interesting to compare the HN response for controversial figures' deaths. It's a pretty stark difference depending on the political alignment. Scan the tone of these comments, and then scan Castro's for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13041886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13041886 Jack Welch is also another that didn't receive much love here: (and he certainly was not as controversial or brutal as Castro) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22464733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22464733

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
fifticon 11mo ago
Jack Welch is very well-deservedly not receiving love. If you had to say something positive about him, it would be something like "well if he hadn't done it, someone else would have". That is not a high bar. You can give him credit for showing us that the foundations of our approach is rotten. He's a bit like Trump in that :-/
- throw0101c 11mo ago
  > Jack Welch is very well-deservedly not receiving love. He may have eventually have 'found religion': > Regarding shareholder value, Welch said in a Financial Times interview on the 2008 financial crisis, "On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world. Shareholder value is a result, not a strategy...your main constituencies are your employees, your customers and your products."[69] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Welch#Politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Welch#Politics However this was probably much later and when his image was less influential; his earlier career and fame probably really helped accelerate financialisation, and was probably never reset by his later opinions (partly because they may not have been as widely publicized). Though on climate change: > Welch identified politically as a Republican.[66] He stated that global warming is "the attack on capitalism that socialism couldn't bring", and that it is a form of "mass neurosis".[67] Yet he said that every business must embrace green products and green ways of doing business, "whether you believe in global warming or not ... because the world wants these products".[68] * Ibid
  - piva00 11mo ago
    > Regarding shareholder value, Welch said in a Financial Times interview on the 2008 financial crisis, "On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world. Shareholder value is a result, not a strategy...your main constituencies are your employees, your customers and your products."[69] Rather odd to see this quote coming from Welch, the man who almost single-handedly destroyed the notion that corporations had a duty to employees, and society at large first, and shareholder value coming as a result of those. His actions, and management style completely defined the era of corporate behaviour we live since the 1980s: the layoffs, the carelessness on axing whole departments of companies which underperformed for a couple of quarters, only looking through short-term financials, all the focus on quarterly reports and financialisation of the economy come from his "teachings". It was very hard for me to believe he uttered these words, rot in hell, Jack.
- theultdev 11mo ago
  Yes it's that type of comment I'm talking about. Pretty much sums up his HN death post, while you'll find mostly praise for Castro. You'd think Welch executed and tortured people and Castro was a saint.
- potato3732842 11mo ago
  And what can you say positive about Cheney? "Yeah his fingerprints are all over every bad policy decision of the era but at least he shot an old lawyer in the face"
wonderwonder 11mo ago
[flagged]
- homeonthemtn 11mo ago
  I disagree but I also find it funny that people will spout off their respective political ideas then get butt hurt that others don't like them. Maybe keep it to yourself. Keep it all to your self.
  - wonderwonder 11mo ago
    I think any article that espouses a political slant will have political comments which I welcome. I enjoy hearing from people with different leanings and discussing them. I just get frustrated when they are based on emotion and not reason
- sanp 11mo ago
  Really? The VC ecosystem and most of tech leadership is pretty alt to hard right now.
  - arcticfox 11mo ago
    IMO that is different than rank-and-file. My theory is that once you make a certain amount of money you run a high risk of becoming divorced from reality.
  - wonderwonder 11mo ago
    Most of tech leadership blows with the wind, they have no firm beliefs. Whatever drives shareholder value. See Zuck. Although I do agree those more to the right have been emboldened to speak up a little more. I think the vast majority of the rank and file including managers are still on the left
  - embedding-shape 11mo ago
    I think it's useful to separate "tech" from "the VC ecosystem" and "most of tech leadership", the former being a huge range of people, while the latter two being a small group comparatively. Not to mention HN is yet another sub-section of the "tech" ecosystem with a small cross-section of VC and startups, although that was indeed the focus on the beginning, I think the scope of HN has grown quite a lot since its beginnings.
CaptWillard 11mo ago
Yeah, but Cheney's an interesting one especially here. Probably a lot of permanent D.C. types lost track of whether to lionize or demonize the man in public (they always loved him privately) Oh, what a tangled web ...
wat10000 11mo ago
It’s natural for people to care more about things that directly affect them. Castro was in a foreign country I’ve never been to, and did most of his stuff before I was even born. His death was largely a realization that somebody from the history books had still been alive. Cheney, in contrast, fucked with my home while I was an adult. He and his cabal did massive damage to my country very recently. I’m not going to make travel arrangements to visit his grave so I can piss on it, but I am tempted to.
ihm 11mo ago
Castro led a revolution that abolished an essentially colonial regime of sugar plantation labor. Under Batista "most of the sugar industry was in U.S. hands, and foreigners owned 70% of the arable land"[^0]. Rural men endured hard labor in poor conditions, for extremely low wages for half the year for the harvest and were left to languish without work for the rest of the year. Rural women were bound to their homes as domestic servants. There was no hope of a life beyond this for either. The revolution abolished this precarious existence, provided universal free healthcare, and gave everyone the opportunity to education through university. And that's just the effect of the revolution on rural life. Cheney was a war profiteer who engineered wars that killed at least hundreds of thousands and probably over a million people. I'd say the assessments are accurate. [^0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista
- theultdev 11mo ago
  Your history of Castro is extremely whitewashed. You forgot the mention the political prisoners, torture, executions, and the authoritarian regime overall. Thousands have risked their lives trying to escape it. The juxtaposition of the comments between Welch and Castro is appalling. Cheney and Castro are closer in terms that they both caused unnecessary death, but one gets praise upon death, and the other condemnation.
watwut 11mo ago
What exactly do you want to say in here? The Castro is called evil a lot in that discussion. Welch is criticized. People here right now seem to complain about Cheney.
- theultdev 11mo ago
  That was your honest takeaway from the Castro thread? How many glorifying top comments did you scroll through to find him being called evil? Fidel Castro executed and tortured people. Jack Welch fired some people. The general sentiment towards Welch's death was very negative. The general sentiment towards Castro's death was very positive. Does that clear things up?
  - watwut 11mo ago
    Yes, as I skimmed it, I caught mostly comments calling him evil. Very colorfully.
    - theultdev 11mo ago
      Luckily we all have the link and can see the top comments so we don't have to live in your reality. You can't be arguing in good faith as it's clear as day the general sentiment difference between the posts.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

fifticon 11mo ago

Jack Welch is very well-deservedly not receiving love. If you had to say something positive about him, it would be something like "well if he hadn't done it, someone else would have". That is not a high bar. You can give him credit for showing us that the foundations of our approach is rotten. He's a bit like Trump in that :-/

throw0101c 11mo ago
> Jack Welch is very well-deservedly not receiving love. He may have eventually have 'found religion': > Regarding shareholder value, Welch said in a Financial Times interview on the 2008 financial crisis, "On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world. Shareholder value is a result, not a strategy...your main constituencies are your employees, your customers and your products."[69] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Welch#Politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Welch#Politics However this was probably much later and when his image was less influential; his earlier career and fame probably really helped accelerate financialisation, and was probably never reset by his later opinions (partly because they may not have been as widely publicized). Though on climate change: > Welch identified politically as a Republican.[66] He stated that global warming is "the attack on capitalism that socialism couldn't bring", and that it is a form of "mass neurosis".[67] Yet he said that every business must embrace green products and green ways of doing business, "whether you believe in global warming or not ... because the world wants these products".[68] * Ibid
- piva00 11mo ago
  > Regarding shareholder value, Welch said in a Financial Times interview on the 2008 financial crisis, "On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world. Shareholder value is a result, not a strategy...your main constituencies are your employees, your customers and your products."[69] Rather odd to see this quote coming from Welch, the man who almost single-handedly destroyed the notion that corporations had a duty to employees, and society at large first, and shareholder value coming as a result of those. His actions, and management style completely defined the era of corporate behaviour we live since the 1980s: the layoffs, the carelessness on axing whole departments of companies which underperformed for a couple of quarters, only looking through short-term financials, all the focus on quarterly reports and financialisation of the economy come from his "teachings". It was very hard for me to believe he uttered these words, rot in hell, Jack.
theultdev 11mo ago
Yes it's that type of comment I'm talking about. Pretty much sums up his HN death post, while you'll find mostly praise for Castro. You'd think Welch executed and tortured people and Castro was a saint.
potato3732842 11mo ago
And what can you say positive about Cheney? "Yeah his fingerprints are all over every bad policy decision of the era but at least he shot an old lawyer in the face"

wonderwonder 11mo ago

[flagged]

homeonthemtn 11mo ago
I disagree but I also find it funny that people will spout off their respective political ideas then get butt hurt that others don't like them. Maybe keep it to yourself. Keep it all to your self.
- wonderwonder 11mo ago
  I think any article that espouses a political slant will have political comments which I welcome. I enjoy hearing from people with different leanings and discussing them. I just get frustrated when they are based on emotion and not reason
sanp 11mo ago
Really? The VC ecosystem and most of tech leadership is pretty alt to hard right now.
- arcticfox 11mo ago
  IMO that is different than rank-and-file. My theory is that once you make a certain amount of money you run a high risk of becoming divorced from reality.
- wonderwonder 11mo ago
  Most of tech leadership blows with the wind, they have no firm beliefs. Whatever drives shareholder value. See Zuck. Although I do agree those more to the right have been emboldened to speak up a little more. I think the vast majority of the rank and file including managers are still on the left
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  I think it's useful to separate "tech" from "the VC ecosystem" and "most of tech leadership", the former being a huge range of people, while the latter two being a small group comparatively. Not to mention HN is yet another sub-section of the "tech" ecosystem with a small cross-section of VC and startups, although that was indeed the focus on the beginning, I think the scope of HN has grown quite a lot since its beginnings.

CaptWillard 11mo ago

Yeah, but Cheney's an interesting one especially here. Probably a lot of permanent D.C. types lost track of whether to lionize or demonize the man in public (they always loved him privately) Oh, what a tangled web ...

wat10000 11mo ago

It’s natural for people to care more about things that directly affect them. Castro was in a foreign country I’ve never been to, and did most of his stuff before I was even born. His death was largely a realization that somebody from the history books had still been alive. Cheney, in contrast, fucked with my home while I was an adult. He and his cabal did massive damage to my country very recently. I’m not going to make travel arrangements to visit his grave so I can piss on it, but I am tempted to.

ihm 11mo ago

Castro led a revolution that abolished an essentially colonial regime of sugar plantation labor. Under Batista "most of the sugar industry was in U.S. hands, and foreigners owned 70% of the arable land"[^0]. Rural men endured hard labor in poor conditions, for extremely low wages for half the year for the harvest and were left to languish without work for the rest of the year. Rural women were bound to their homes as domestic servants. There was no hope of a life beyond this for either. The revolution abolished this precarious existence, provided universal free healthcare, and gave everyone the opportunity to education through university. And that's just the effect of the revolution on rural life. Cheney was a war profiteer who engineered wars that killed at least hundreds of thousands and probably over a million people. I'd say the assessments are accurate. [^0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista

theultdev 11mo ago
Your history of Castro is extremely whitewashed. You forgot the mention the political prisoners, torture, executions, and the authoritarian regime overall. Thousands have risked their lives trying to escape it. The juxtaposition of the comments between Welch and Castro is appalling. Cheney and Castro are closer in terms that they both caused unnecessary death, but one gets praise upon death, and the other condemnation.

watwut 11mo ago

What exactly do you want to say in here? The Castro is called evil a lot in that discussion. Welch is criticized. People here right now seem to complain about Cheney.

theultdev 11mo ago
That was your honest takeaway from the Castro thread? How many glorifying top comments did you scroll through to find him being called evil? Fidel Castro executed and tortured people. Jack Welch fired some people. The general sentiment towards Welch's death was very negative. The general sentiment towards Castro's death was very positive. Does that clear things up?
- watwut 11mo ago
  Yes, as I skimmed it, I caught mostly comments calling him evil. Very colorfully.
  - theultdev 11mo ago
    Luckily we all have the link and can see the top comments so we don't have to live in your reality. You can't be arguing in good faith as it's clear as day the general sentiment difference between the posts.