4 ms·

Alternative to the reject and request rewrite approach, which may not work in the corporation environment. You schedule a really long video call with the offend

by Yizahi 1y ago

Alternative to the reject and request rewrite approach, which may not work in the corporation environment. You schedule a really long video call with the offending person, with the agenda politely describing that for such a huge and extensive change, a collaborative meeting is required. You then notify your lead that new huge task has arrived which will take X hours from you, so if he wishes to re-prioritize tasks, he is welcome. And then if the meeting happen, you literally go line by line, demanding that author explain them to you. And if explanation or a meeting are refused, you can reject RP with a clear explanation why.

Msurrow 1y ago
See, now that’s a proper f** you in corporate-speak.
watwut 1y ago
Sir, I see a big senior manager future in you. My hats down.
a4isms 1y ago
This is the answer, and it has been the answer going back to the before times when we didn't have pull requests but we did in-person team code reviews before merging branches (yes, really). A massive, complicated merge without documentation and extensive support from other interested/impacted people and teams justifying things like a parser DSL? That is always going to be a problem whether AI generated it or the developer locked their office door and went on a three-day manic coding binge. AI doesn't directly make this stuff worse, it accelerates a team's journey towards embracing engineering practices around the code being written by humans or LLMs.
- djmips 1y ago
  we still do this on very big fundamental changes.
iamleppert 1y ago
Oh, how I would love to work with you. I'd drown you in more meetings, documentation on code (LLM generated of course) than you could ever imagine. You can use the LLM to generate as much documentation on the changes as you want. Just give it your PR. If someone tries to reject your vibe coded AI slop, just generate more slop documentation to drown them in it. It works every time. If they push back, report them to their manager for not being "AI first" and a team player.
- a4isms 1y ago
  If we look at this as a system with work flowing through it, the "theory of constraints" quickly tells us that code review is the bottleneck, and that speeding up code generation actually lowers system throughput. This is not new stuff, Goldratt warned us about this twenty+ years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constraints https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constraints
- zeroCalories 1y ago
  When my manager pings me about it I'll just show him your ai slop and tell him we'll be liable for all the bugs and production issues related to this, in addition to maintaining it. Then let him make the choice. Escalate if needed.
tokioyoyo 1y ago
Honestly, this approach would probably get you fired eventually for non-coop behaviour in every company I’ve worked at. AI slop code is becoming the go-to way for a lot of written code. At some point it’ll make more sense to find a solution to the problem (“how to be confident in slop code”), rather than going against the financial motives of the business owners (cut expenses, maximize profit somehow through AI). I’m not sure if it’s right or wrong, but it is what it is.
- embedding-shape 1y ago
  > Honestly, this approach would probably get you fired eventually for non-coop behaviour in every company I’ve worked at. I don't think I've ever worked in a company that would fire someone for something like that. Maybe you'd get a scheduled conversation to talk about it, to try to resolve whatever is going on (in this case verbose AI slop PRs), since obviously something is going wrong when people start engaging in malicious compliance. But then I also never worked in a country where people can be fired for whatever reason, it's always been a legal requirement (in the countries I've lived at least) that the firing needs to be properly justified and explained, and firing someone like that wouldn't be justified.
  - fifilura 1y ago
    Wow, 636 karma points in 8 days since registering! You are on a roll! (FWIW i upped this comment).
    - embedding-shape 1y ago
      Hah, don't say that, just makes my current computer and HN obsession even more clear, I've hidden upvotes in my browser just to avoid realizing that! (jokes aside, I do probably spend too much time on HN at this moment...)
  - tokioyoyo 1y ago
    It wouldn’t be a direct firing, but if the majority of the company/team is pro-AI, people will complain privately for “being a person hard to work with”. Eventually, after 6 months of repetitive passive aggressiveness, you’ll be let go or get paycuts.
bb88 1y ago
I would recommend inviting the person, his manager, and your manager. To start things off the meeting, I would say something like, "To me this is a surprising PR. I would expect it to be maybe 500(e.g.) lines including unit tests. Why does it need to be this complicated?" If your manager just folds over, I would just accept it, because he's probably so beat down by the organization that he's not going to stick up for his employees anyway. At that point, it's time to look for another job. But if the managers listen to their employees, and you have a better alternative, and your arguments are reasonable, it should be fine.
ericmcer 1y ago
It doesn't even need to be a long call, just a one off "hey this is a big PR, got a sec to run me through it" works. Usually within a few questions the answer "the AI wrote it that way" will come out. Which feels bananas to me, like you don't understand how the code you PR is doing what you want? That would feel like showing up to work with no pants on for me.
ekjhgkejhgk 1y ago
This guy corporates.

by Yizahi 1y ago

Msurrow 1y ago

See, now that’s a proper f** you in corporate-speak.

watwut 1y ago

Sir, I see a big senior manager future in you. My hats down.

a4isms 1y ago

This is the answer, and it has been the answer going back to the before times when we didn't have pull requests but we did in-person team code reviews before merging branches (yes, really). A massive, complicated merge without documentation and extensive support from other interested/impacted people and teams justifying things like a parser DSL? That is always going to be a problem whether AI generated it or the developer locked their office door and went on a three-day manic coding binge. AI doesn't directly make this stuff worse, it accelerates a team's journey towards embracing engineering practices around the code being written by humans or LLMs.

djmips 1y ago
we still do this on very big fundamental changes.

iamleppert 1y ago

Oh, how I would love to work with you. I'd drown you in more meetings, documentation on code (LLM generated of course) than you could ever imagine. You can use the LLM to generate as much documentation on the changes as you want. Just give it your PR. If someone tries to reject your vibe coded AI slop, just generate more slop documentation to drown them in it. It works every time. If they push back, report them to their manager for not being "AI first" and a team player.

a4isms 1y ago
If we look at this as a system with work flowing through it, the "theory of constraints" quickly tells us that code review is the bottleneck, and that speeding up code generation actually lowers system throughput. This is not new stuff, Goldratt warned us about this twenty+ years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constraints https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constraints
zeroCalories 1y ago
When my manager pings me about it I'll just show him your ai slop and tell him we'll be liable for all the bugs and production issues related to this, in addition to maintaining it. Then let him make the choice. Escalate if needed.

tokioyoyo 1y ago

Honestly, this approach would probably get you fired eventually for non-coop behaviour in every company I’ve worked at. AI slop code is becoming the go-to way for a lot of written code. At some point it’ll make more sense to find a solution to the problem (“how to be confident in slop code”), rather than going against the financial motives of the business owners (cut expenses, maximize profit somehow through AI). I’m not sure if it’s right or wrong, but it is what it is.

embedding-shape 1y ago
> Honestly, this approach would probably get you fired eventually for non-coop behaviour in every company I’ve worked at. I don't think I've ever worked in a company that would fire someone for something like that. Maybe you'd get a scheduled conversation to talk about it, to try to resolve whatever is going on (in this case verbose AI slop PRs), since obviously something is going wrong when people start engaging in malicious compliance. But then I also never worked in a country where people can be fired for whatever reason, it's always been a legal requirement (in the countries I've lived at least) that the firing needs to be properly justified and explained, and firing someone like that wouldn't be justified.
- fifilura 1y ago
  Wow, 636 karma points in 8 days since registering! You are on a roll! (FWIW i upped this comment).
  - embedding-shape 1y ago
    Hah, don't say that, just makes my current computer and HN obsession even more clear, I've hidden upvotes in my browser just to avoid realizing that! (jokes aside, I do probably spend too much time on HN at this moment...)
- tokioyoyo 1y ago
  It wouldn’t be a direct firing, but if the majority of the company/team is pro-AI, people will complain privately for “being a person hard to work with”. Eventually, after 6 months of repetitive passive aggressiveness, you’ll be let go or get paycuts.

bb88 1y ago

I would recommend inviting the person, his manager, and your manager. To start things off the meeting, I would say something like, "To me this is a surprising PR. I would expect it to be maybe 500(e.g.) lines including unit tests. Why does it need to be this complicated?" If your manager just folds over, I would just accept it, because he's probably so beat down by the organization that he's not going to stick up for his employees anyway. At that point, it's time to look for another job. But if the managers listen to their employees, and you have a better alternative, and your arguments are reasonable, it should be fine.

ericmcer 1y ago

It doesn't even need to be a long call, just a one off "hey this is a big PR, got a sec to run me through it" works. Usually within a few questions the answer "the AI wrote it that way" will come out. Which feels bananas to me, like you don't understand how the code you PR is doing what you want? That would feel like showing up to work with no pants on for me.

ekjhgkejhgk 1y ago

This guy corporates.