6 ms·

I think in British English it is more common to say 'best before date' rather than 'sell-by date'. One 'Britishisation' I wish the US would get is 'I couldn't

I think in British English it is more common to say 'best before date' rather than 'sell-by date'. One 'Britishisation' I wish the US would get is 'I couldn't care less', meaning I care about some thing as little as possible, yet in the US they insist on say 'I could care less' which makes no sense.

Jabbles 14y ago
'best before date' and 'sell-by date' refer to different things and are usually separated by a few days. e.g. http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01420/date_1420148c.jpg http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01420/date_14201...
- diazamet 14y ago
  Yes but in general conversation people would normally just refer to the 'best before' date. Also, not everything has a 'display until' or 'sell-by' date.
freehunter 14y ago
I don't think that's British vs American, that's more proper grammar vs improper grammar. You wouldn't hear anyone of any stature seriously trying to suggest that "could care less" is American English. My opinion is that it's one of those things people hear spoken more than they see written and the tendency to say "could'n care less" (without the hard stop on the 't'). Kind of like something I see on HN quite often, "kind've".
- diazamet 14y ago
  Granted, it's not necessarily a UK vs US -ism but I come across it most often on US websites.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
    As someone resident in the UK, I am quite sure that it is in fact a UK vs US-ism. I wouldn't know if everyone in the US uses the phrase "I could care less" but I am sure that no-one over here does. Which makes it an American turn of phrase since it is found no-where else.
- 5teev 14y ago
  If you think of "I could care less" as sarcasm, it makes more sense, i.e., the speaker couldn't really care less. (If I recall, this was the typical usage when I first started hearing this phrase decades ago.)
- sarabob 14y ago
  AIUI the USA version is "I could care less, if I really tried hard."
- dpark 14y ago
  I agree this is just a question of improper grammar. However , it's fast becoming an Americanism. I think it's probably more common without the "n't" (or even just "n'") at this point. > Kind of like something I see on HN quite often, "kind've". Ew
- SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
  What do you mean by "stature"? I'm convinced that British people never say "I could care less" when they mean that they don't care, but that some American people do. British people say instead "I couldn't care less", which is a more accurate statement. How does that differ from "I could care less" being a characteristically American turn of phrase?
  - dpark 14y ago
    What he means is that even Americans would identify this an improper grammar. I'm not sure if that's accurate or not, though. I daresay that the more grammatically-inclined among us would call it wrong, but the typical American likely would not. (See also: literally, used as a general intensifier)
    - SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
      > identify this an improper grammar. And yet those who study living languages for a living linguists of stature, if you will) insist that what they do is descriptive, not prescriptive. http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/ling001/prescription.html http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/ling001/prescription.html i.e. if a large group of people say it in a particular way, they are doing what they do, not doing something else incorrectly.
      - dpark 14y ago
        Well, they can claim whatever they want. :) At the end of the day, calling something "right" or "wrong" comes down to a subjective call, though. If 99% of people use some construction, then even the most prescriptive of linguists will probably consider it correct. But what about 40%? 20%? Even for a descriptive linguist, the question of "do people say X" is fuzzy. Some people say "X" for almost any "X". Some people say "aks" instead of "ask", but the vast majority of people would agree that's wrong.
        SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
        > At the end of the day, calling something "right" or "wrong" comes down to a subjective call But the idea is to not make that call at all. That would be prescriptive. > Some people say "aks" instead of "ask", but the vast majority of people would agree that's wrong. I'm told that's a regional variation. In other words, in some places, people speak like that. That's descriptive. so is "most people speak like that in region A and don't have a problem with it, and most don't in regions B,C,D,E".
- nollidge 14y ago
  It's got nothing to do with grammar. "I could care less" is a perfectly grammatical sentence - it follows all the rules of English sentence construction. Similarly, "colorless green ideas sleep furiously" is also perfectly grammatical, it just doesn't make any semantic sense.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
    But "I could care less" is a perfectly grammatical sentence, which has a semantic meaning, which, as David Mitchell explains at comic length, is the opposite of what the speaker means to say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
    - nollidge 14y ago
      Right. How's that different from what I said?
  - dpark 14y ago
    And so we move from discussing pedantic points of language to discussing tangential points that are even more pedantic. :)
    - freehunter 14y ago
      Thus is the nature of a living language. Everyone has their own interpretation of how the language should be used, and it's up to everyone to find common ground in order to be understood. Debates, even inconsequential debates, are an integral part of understanding the words we assign arbitrary meaning to.
    - nollidge 14y ago
      If we're going to talk about language, then it's far from pedantic to insist on using it properly while doing so.
      - dpark 14y ago
nickt 14y ago
Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
yardie 14y ago
To my American ears couldn't and less are a double negative. Like here is my level of concern and I can't go below that. OTOH, "could care less", means my level of disregard can approach -∞
- dpark 14y ago
  Less isn't a negative. It's a comparative. "I couldn't care less" means "I am incapable of caring any less" aka "I care as little as possible". "I could care less" means "I do not care as little as possible" aka "I care a little". If your level of concern is not zero, then I suppose you "could care less", but that means you do care, which is not the sentiment normally intended by the phrase.
jonathansizz 14y ago
Also, 'a way to go' & 'anyway' versus 'a ways to go' & 'anyways'; 'take it with a pinch of salt' versus 'take it with a grain of salt' (miserly Americans!). On the other hand, I generally prefer the American -ization versus -isation.
nollidge 14y ago
It definitely doesn't make sense, but I think it's probably a result of a few folks eliding the "n't" on "couldn't" when speaking, then the phrase getting interpreted by the listener as a single phonic unit "could care less", which carries the semantic definition "couldn't care less". It's just that the listener's brain understands the speaker based on the context without needing to deconstruct the clause and notice the elision, and so the gestalt phrase is what's remembered, and, later, recalled.

Jabbles 14y ago

'best before date' and 'sell-by date' refer to different things and are usually separated by a few days. e.g. http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01420/date_1420148c.jpg http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01420/date_14201...

diazamet 14y ago
Yes but in general conversation people would normally just refer to the 'best before' date. Also, not everything has a 'display until' or 'sell-by' date.

freehunter 14y ago

I don't think that's British vs American, that's more proper grammar vs improper grammar. You wouldn't hear anyone of any stature seriously trying to suggest that "could care less" is American English. My opinion is that it's one of those things people hear spoken more than they see written and the tendency to say "could'n care less" (without the hard stop on the 't'). Kind of like something I see on HN quite often, "kind've".

diazamet 14y ago
Granted, it's not necessarily a UK vs US -ism but I come across it most often on US websites.
- SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
  As someone resident in the UK, I am quite sure that it is in fact a UK vs US-ism. I wouldn't know if everyone in the US uses the phrase "I could care less" but I am sure that no-one over here does. Which makes it an American turn of phrase since it is found no-where else.
5teev 14y ago
If you think of "I could care less" as sarcasm, it makes more sense, i.e., the speaker couldn't really care less. (If I recall, this was the typical usage when I first started hearing this phrase decades ago.)
sarabob 14y ago
AIUI the USA version is "I could care less, if I really tried hard."
dpark 14y ago
I agree this is just a question of improper grammar. However , it's fast becoming an Americanism. I think it's probably more common without the "n't" (or even just "n'") at this point. > Kind of like something I see on HN quite often, "kind've". Ew
SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
What do you mean by "stature"? I'm convinced that British people never say "I could care less" when they mean that they don't care, but that some American people do. British people say instead "I couldn't care less", which is a more accurate statement. How does that differ from "I could care less" being a characteristically American turn of phrase?
- dpark 14y ago
  What he means is that even Americans would identify this an improper grammar. I'm not sure if that's accurate or not, though. I daresay that the more grammatically-inclined among us would call it wrong, but the typical American likely would not. (See also: literally, used as a general intensifier)
  - SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
    > identify this an improper grammar. And yet those who study living languages for a living linguists of stature, if you will) insist that what they do is descriptive, not prescriptive. http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/ling001/prescription.html http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/ling001/prescription.html i.e. if a large group of people say it in a particular way, they are doing what they do, not doing something else incorrectly.
    - dpark 14y ago
      Well, they can claim whatever they want. :) At the end of the day, calling something "right" or "wrong" comes down to a subjective call, though. If 99% of people use some construction, then even the most prescriptive of linguists will probably consider it correct. But what about 40%? 20%? Even for a descriptive linguist, the question of "do people say X" is fuzzy. Some people say "X" for almost any "X". Some people say "aks" instead of "ask", but the vast majority of people would agree that's wrong.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
        > At the end of the day, calling something "right" or "wrong" comes down to a subjective call But the idea is to not make that call at all. That would be prescriptive. > Some people say "aks" instead of "ask", but the vast majority of people would agree that's wrong. I'm told that's a regional variation. In other words, in some places, people speak like that. That's descriptive. so is "most people speak like that in region A and don't have a problem with it, and most don't in regions B,C,D,E".
nollidge 14y ago
It's got nothing to do with grammar. "I could care less" is a perfectly grammatical sentence - it follows all the rules of English sentence construction. Similarly, "colorless green ideas sleep furiously" is also perfectly grammatical, it just doesn't make any semantic sense.
- SideburnsOfDoom 14y ago
  But "I could care less" is a perfectly grammatical sentence, which has a semantic meaning, which, as David Mitchell explains at comic length, is the opposite of what the speaker means to say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
  - nollidge 14y ago
    Right. How's that different from what I said?
- dpark 14y ago
  And so we move from discussing pedantic points of language to discussing tangential points that are even more pedantic. :)
  - freehunter 14y ago
    Thus is the nature of a living language. Everyone has their own interpretation of how the language should be used, and it's up to everyone to find common ground in order to be understood. Debates, even inconsequential debates, are an integral part of understanding the words we assign arbitrary meaning to.
  - nollidge 14y ago
    If we're going to talk about language, then it's far from pedantic to insist on using it properly while doing so.
    - dpark 14y ago

nickt 14y ago

Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

yardie 14y ago

To my American ears couldn't and less are a double negative. Like here is my level of concern and I can't go below that. OTOH, "could care less", means my level of disregard can approach -∞

dpark 14y ago
Less isn't a negative. It's a comparative. "I couldn't care less" means "I am incapable of caring any less" aka "I care as little as possible". "I could care less" means "I do not care as little as possible" aka "I care a little". If your level of concern is not zero, then I suppose you "could care less", but that means you do care, which is not the sentiment normally intended by the phrase.

jonathansizz 14y ago

Also, 'a way to go' & 'anyway' versus 'a ways to go' & 'anyways'; 'take it with a pinch of salt' versus 'take it with a grain of salt' (miserly Americans!). On the other hand, I generally prefer the American -ization versus -isation.

nollidge 14y ago

It definitely doesn't make sense, but I think it's probably a result of a few folks eliding the "n't" on "couldn't" when speaking, then the phrase getting interpreted by the listener as a single phonic unit "could care less", which carries the semantic definition "couldn't care less". It's just that the listener's brain understands the speaker based on the context without needing to deconstruct the clause and notice the elision, and so the gestalt phrase is what's remembered, and, later, recalled.