4 ms·

Lee Felsenstein

66 points by nickt 11mo ago

internet_points 11mo ago
> Felsenstein was influenced in his philosophy by the works of Ivan Illich, particularly Tools for Conviviality (Harper and Row, 1973). This book advocated a "convivial" approach to design which allowed users of technologies to learn about the technology by encouraging exploration, tinkering, and modification. Felsenstein had learned about electronics in much the same fashion, and summarized his conclusions in several aphorisms, to wit – "In order to survive in a public-access environment, a computer must grow a computer club around itself." Others were – "To change the rules, change the tools," and "If work is to become play, then tools must become toys."
- snovymgodym 11mo ago
  I highly recommend Tools for Conviviality, it's extremely poignant and ahead of its time.
JSR_FDED 11mo ago
I wanted an Osborne 1 so badly when I was a kid - all that power in a handy portable suitcase form factor!
- noir_lord 11mo ago
  8 bit guy on YouTube has a nice three part series on restoring and demoing the Osborne 1, I watched the last part this morning. Looked like a neat little machine but (just a little) before my time, I’d have been in nursery when it released.
- gnerd00 11mo ago
  Coding on an Osbourne Executive.. portable yes, but the screen was so small, the external monitor was essential. Pick green or orange monitor phospher (very different looking). Big floppy disks and CP/M, Wordstar and .. Visi-Calc? Basic language.. authors workstation and could dial in with a modem to a BBS.
- themadturk 11mo ago
  I was in my late 20s when one of the trust managers at the bank I worked for brought in his Osborne. I was so very, very jealous. I'd just purchased the CP/M cartridge for my Commodore 64 and tried to convince him let me borrow the WordStar disk, but he wouldn't do it (and I really never went anywhere with CP/M on the C=64).
kragen 11mo ago
Could we maybe change the title to something like "Lee Felsenstein is still alive"? I was worried when I saw the title.
- croisillon 11mo ago
  i'd suggest "Lee Felsenstein turned 80 this year" :)
  - ludwik 11mo ago
    Good call. I would feel extremely weird seeing "[my full name] is still alive" as a title somewhere...
    - kragen 11mo ago
      Oh, yeah, my suggestion was pretty dumb.
    - croisillon 11mo ago
      especially on a website formatted like a todo list :)
  - Iridiumkoivu 11mo ago
    Yeah, that’s a good one. I also thought that he had passed away because of his age and how the title was not very informative. ( ;^^)b
- robterrell 11mo ago
  Please, this was my first thought too.
noufalibrahim 11mo ago
This was an era before my time but the book "Hackers" by Steven Levy does a great job of painting an evocative picture of this era. It evokes a feeling of nostalgia (as in, we missed being in those times) but when you think properly, you see that you still have the same types of opportunities in a field where the frontiers are ever widening.
- partomniscient 11mo ago
  I remember the quote, maybe not word for word, but Lee said something like: "You're going to do all that for the computer? What are you going to do for the people?"
JKCalhoun 11mo ago
For someone whose claim to fame was during the onboarding of the personal computer, I wish Wikipedia would provide period-appropriate images. For example, I found this one of a younger Lee: https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/still-image/2011/01/102702652.03-01-sm.jpg https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/still-i...
- kevinwang 11mo ago
  Good idea! Anyone should be able to add it if it's in the public domain.
- DonHopkins 11mo ago
  I asked Lee about that great photo and he wrote: Prototype for the Automatic Photoelectric Keratometer, (US 4,345,437 - 1966, to Westheimer and Felsenstein). Taken by myself in the lab of Gerald Westheimer in 1965. Vacuum tube electronics of my design controlling an oscilloscope pattern focused on a sumulated eyeball with two photomultiplier tubes catching the glint (specular) reflection and reversing the sweep direction. A poor idea which went nowhere but it got a patent for the professor who generously included me as co-inventor and coauthor of a paper. UC Berkeley School of Optometry — I was a Lab Helper at $2.03/hour. Prof. Westheimer later moved to Physiology. He was 99 in 2023 when we last met.
- kragen 11mo ago
  For the primary photo on biographies of living people, Wikipedia prefers photos to be as current as possible.
Triphibian 11mo ago
Just recently read his memoir, "Me and My Big Ideas," which gives a fascinating look at the meeting of modern computing and the counterculture. It feels more and more important to get these stories down while we still can.
- DonHopkins 11mo ago
  To quote Lee: "To change the rules - change the tools!" http://www.FelsenSigns.com http://www.FelsenSigns.com He's reissued the classic Homebrew Computer Club t-shirts he sold at the final meeting, and also posters! https://felsensigns.com/engineers-and-programmers-with-attitude/ https://felsensigns.com/engineers-and-programmers-with-attit... >The cartoon shows a caricature of Chares Proteus Steinmetz – a hero of mine, posing for a photograph at the inauguration of one of his big generators (he taught American engineers how to calculate with alternating current starting around 1890). He was a German immigrant hunchback dwarf and was never admitted to “polite society” of the day, but he changed to world. >The front of the shirt shows him in front of the massive, throbbing machine – hand on the switch, dressed in formal wear. The rear of the shirt shows the rear view, with Steinmetz’ fingers crossed as the photographer takes his shot.
dmazin 11mo ago
If this guy is interesting to you, I recommend "What the Dormouse Said: How the Sixties Counterculture Shaped the Personal Computer Industry"[1]. Really good computing history book, and I've read a lot of them. Lee is a major character in the book. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Dormouse_Said https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Dormouse_Said
croemer 11mo ago
Brother of the famous (in phylogenetics circles) Joe Felsenstein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Felsenstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Felsenstein
robterrell 11mo ago
Lee will be speaking next month in San Jose at an event for the 50th anniversary of the Byte Shop computer store. Incredible opportunity to hear from the man himself. For computer designers of the 8-bit era, I’d say he ranks next to Woz in terms of importance: the Sol-80, Osborne, Homebrew Computer Club, member of the Berkeley free speech movement. Curious to hear his thoughts on the industry today.
- benjedwards 11mo ago
  Are you related to Paul? I noticed the last name. :)
  - robterrell 11mo ago
    Yep! Paul is my uncle. My parents had a franchise Byte Shop in Greensboro, NC when I was a kid.
    - dopamean 11mo ago
      This is so cool. How lucky to have such a close experience to that scene. I'm jealous.
    - benjedwards 11mo ago
      That's really neat. I had no idea there was a Byte Shop in Greensboro. My wife's family is from that area. I live in Raleigh, NC. Now I am wondering if my nerdy father-in-law ever visited it back in the day.
- rohitkhare 11mo ago
  Any link or details for the event? I tried looking for SJSU events and found the earlier Vintage Computing Fair talks, but at least I can trade this time capsule link from that era even if it doesn't quote me toon the Byte Shop specifically: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1977/04/04/bytes-and-chips https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1977/04/04/bytes-and-chip...
  - 11mo ago
nickpinkston 11mo ago
Lee is so cool and humble. In my mid 20s, I ran the SF Hardware Meetup, and Lee came and just told me something like: "Oh yea, I've been into hardware for a long time.", and only later did I realize who he was haha. Like others here, I was concerned seeing his name trending here, and I'm so glad he's still alive. Lee represents the best of mentalities of the tech scene, and I hope we can get back to a more pro-social place and away from this profit-first bubble shit.
ohjeez 11mo ago
Jesus Christ you just scared me. Next time, post a title like "Lee Felsenstein (is fine)," please!
ChrisGammell 11mo ago
Interview with Lee at the end of 2024 on The Amp Hour podcast: https://theamphour.com/684-lee-felsenstein-the-computer-revolution-counterculture/ https://theamphour.com/684-lee-felsenstein-the-computer-revo...
sakebomb 11mo ago
If you haven't read his book, check it out: Me and My Big Ideas: Counterculture, Social Media, and the Future http://amazon.com/Me-My-Big-Ideas-Counterculture/dp/B0DJ8T45F1 http://amazon.com/Me-My-Big-Ideas-Counterculture/dp/B0DJ8T45...
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
lproven 11mo ago
For those afflicted by Meta syndrome, Lee F is a fairly regular poster and commenter in the Vintage Computer Club group. :-)

66 points by nickt 11mo ago

> Felsenstein was influenced in his philosophy by the works of Ivan Illich, particularly Tools for Conviviality (Harper and Row, 1973). This book advocated a "convivial" approach to design which allowed users of technologies to learn about the technology by encouraging exploration, tinkering, and modification. Felsenstein had learned about electronics in much the same fashion, and summarized his conclusions in several aphorisms, to wit – "In order to survive in a public-access environment, a computer must grow a computer club around itself." Others were – "To change the rules, change the tools," and "If work is to become play, then tools must become toys."

snovymgodym 11mo ago
I highly recommend Tools for Conviviality, it's extremely poignant and ahead of its time.

JSR_FDED 11mo ago

I wanted an Osborne 1 so badly when I was a kid - all that power in a handy portable suitcase form factor!

noir_lord 11mo ago
8 bit guy on YouTube has a nice three part series on restoring and demoing the Osborne 1, I watched the last part this morning. Looked like a neat little machine but (just a little) before my time, I’d have been in nursery when it released.
gnerd00 11mo ago
Coding on an Osbourne Executive.. portable yes, but the screen was so small, the external monitor was essential. Pick green or orange monitor phospher (very different looking). Big floppy disks and CP/M, Wordstar and .. Visi-Calc? Basic language.. authors workstation and could dial in with a modem to a BBS.
themadturk 11mo ago
I was in my late 20s when one of the trust managers at the bank I worked for brought in his Osborne. I was so very, very jealous. I'd just purchased the CP/M cartridge for my Commodore 64 and tried to convince him let me borrow the WordStar disk, but he wouldn't do it (and I really never went anywhere with CP/M on the C=64).

kragen 11mo ago

Could we maybe change the title to something like "Lee Felsenstein is still alive"? I was worried when I saw the title.

croisillon 11mo ago
i'd suggest "Lee Felsenstein turned 80 this year" :)
- ludwik 11mo ago
  Good call. I would feel extremely weird seeing "[my full name] is still alive" as a title somewhere...
  - kragen 11mo ago
    Oh, yeah, my suggestion was pretty dumb.
  - croisillon 11mo ago
    especially on a website formatted like a todo list :)
- Iridiumkoivu 11mo ago
  Yeah, that’s a good one. I also thought that he had passed away because of his age and how the title was not very informative. ( ;^^)b
robterrell 11mo ago
Please, this was my first thought too.

noufalibrahim 11mo ago

This was an era before my time but the book "Hackers" by Steven Levy does a great job of painting an evocative picture of this era. It evokes a feeling of nostalgia (as in, we missed being in those times) but when you think properly, you see that you still have the same types of opportunities in a field where the frontiers are ever widening.

partomniscient 11mo ago
I remember the quote, maybe not word for word, but Lee said something like: "You're going to do all that for the computer? What are you going to do for the people?"

JKCalhoun 11mo ago

For someone whose claim to fame was during the onboarding of the personal computer, I wish Wikipedia would provide period-appropriate images. For example, I found this one of a younger Lee: https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/still-image/2011/01/102702652.03-01-sm.jpg https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/still-i...

kevinwang 11mo ago
Good idea! Anyone should be able to add it if it's in the public domain.
DonHopkins 11mo ago
I asked Lee about that great photo and he wrote: Prototype for the Automatic Photoelectric Keratometer, (US 4,345,437 - 1966, to Westheimer and Felsenstein). Taken by myself in the lab of Gerald Westheimer in 1965. Vacuum tube electronics of my design controlling an oscilloscope pattern focused on a sumulated eyeball with two photomultiplier tubes catching the glint (specular) reflection and reversing the sweep direction. A poor idea which went nowhere but it got a patent for the professor who generously included me as co-inventor and coauthor of a paper. UC Berkeley School of Optometry — I was a Lab Helper at $2.03/hour. Prof. Westheimer later moved to Physiology. He was 99 in 2023 when we last met.
kragen 11mo ago
For the primary photo on biographies of living people, Wikipedia prefers photos to be as current as possible.

Triphibian 11mo ago

Just recently read his memoir, "Me and My Big Ideas," which gives a fascinating look at the meeting of modern computing and the counterculture. It feels more and more important to get these stories down while we still can.

DonHopkins 11mo ago
To quote Lee: "To change the rules - change the tools!" http://www.FelsenSigns.com http://www.FelsenSigns.com He's reissued the classic Homebrew Computer Club t-shirts he sold at the final meeting, and also posters! https://felsensigns.com/engineers-and-programmers-with-attitude/ https://felsensigns.com/engineers-and-programmers-with-attit... >The cartoon shows a caricature of Chares Proteus Steinmetz – a hero of mine, posing for a photograph at the inauguration of one of his big generators (he taught American engineers how to calculate with alternating current starting around 1890). He was a German immigrant hunchback dwarf and was never admitted to “polite society” of the day, but he changed to world. >The front of the shirt shows him in front of the massive, throbbing machine – hand on the switch, dressed in formal wear. The rear of the shirt shows the rear view, with Steinmetz’ fingers crossed as the photographer takes his shot.

dmazin 11mo ago

If this guy is interesting to you, I recommend "What the Dormouse Said: How the Sixties Counterculture Shaped the Personal Computer Industry"[1]. Really good computing history book, and I've read a lot of them. Lee is a major character in the book. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Dormouse_Said https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Dormouse_Said

croemer 11mo ago

Brother of the famous (in phylogenetics circles) Joe Felsenstein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Felsenstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Felsenstein

robterrell 11mo ago

Lee will be speaking next month in San Jose at an event for the 50th anniversary of the Byte Shop computer store. Incredible opportunity to hear from the man himself. For computer designers of the 8-bit era, I’d say he ranks next to Woz in terms of importance: the Sol-80, Osborne, Homebrew Computer Club, member of the Berkeley free speech movement. Curious to hear his thoughts on the industry today.

benjedwards 11mo ago
Are you related to Paul? I noticed the last name. :)
- robterrell 11mo ago
  Yep! Paul is my uncle. My parents had a franchise Byte Shop in Greensboro, NC when I was a kid.
  - dopamean 11mo ago
    This is so cool. How lucky to have such a close experience to that scene. I'm jealous.
  - benjedwards 11mo ago
    That's really neat. I had no idea there was a Byte Shop in Greensboro. My wife's family is from that area. I live in Raleigh, NC. Now I am wondering if my nerdy father-in-law ever visited it back in the day.
rohitkhare 11mo ago
Any link or details for the event? I tried looking for SJSU events and found the earlier Vintage Computing Fair talks, but at least I can trade this time capsule link from that era even if it doesn't quote me toon the Byte Shop specifically: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1977/04/04/bytes-and-chips https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1977/04/04/bytes-and-chip...
- 11mo ago

nickpinkston 11mo ago

Lee is so cool and humble. In my mid 20s, I ran the SF Hardware Meetup, and Lee came and just told me something like: "Oh yea, I've been into hardware for a long time.", and only later did I realize who he was haha. Like others here, I was concerned seeing his name trending here, and I'm so glad he's still alive. Lee represents the best of mentalities of the tech scene, and I hope we can get back to a more pro-social place and away from this profit-first bubble shit.

ohjeez 11mo ago

Jesus Christ you just scared me. Next time, post a title like "Lee Felsenstein (is fine)," please!

ChrisGammell 11mo ago

Interview with Lee at the end of 2024 on The Amp Hour podcast: https://theamphour.com/684-lee-felsenstein-the-computer-revolution-counterculture/ https://theamphour.com/684-lee-felsenstein-the-computer-revo...

sakebomb 11mo ago

If you haven't read his book, check it out: Me and My Big Ideas: Counterculture, Social Media, and the Future http://amazon.com/Me-My-Big-Ideas-Counterculture/dp/B0DJ8T45F1 http://amazon.com/Me-My-Big-Ideas-Counterculture/dp/B0DJ8T45...

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

lproven 11mo ago

For those afflicted by Meta syndrome, Lee F is a fairly regular poster and commenter in the Vintage Computer Club group. :-)