4 ms·

One of the rapists is now paraded as a hero on Israeli TV. Sick, sick society.

by ebbi 1y ago

Protostome 1y ago
[flagged]
- Steven420 1y ago
  Do you have any evidence of any of this?
  - Protostome 1y ago
    of what? bodies of women paraded on the streets?
spwa4 1y ago
[flagged]
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  There was a time when rule of law was an aspiration. Sectarian violence and revenge may be sometimes understandable, but never laudable, IMHO.
  - red-iron-pine 1y ago
    the middle east has rarely played by those rules, not in recent memory anyway.
- gausswho 1y ago
  Rape whataboutism.
- zzrrt 1y ago
  > is Israeli society, by supporting this woman, perhaps expressing support for punishing rapists and mass murderers, even where such punishment does not entirely follow the rules? It’s unclear what woman you refer to, but anyway I don’t think there is enough “support for punishing rapists” to cancel out the riots in support of the alleged rapists, or the government, military, and media campaign to demonize the whistleblower with incendiary lies like “blood libel.”
  - spwa4 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - lesuorac 1y ago
      If you don't think a single Gazan goes to jail then I have a bridge to sell you ...
      - scotho3 1y ago
        how many will go to jail, prosecuted by other Gazans, in Gaza?
    - actionfromafar 1y ago
      Hm, I thought the Israeli killrate was only 50x Hamas.
    - zzrrt 1y ago
      Honestly, cold-blooded shoving a stick into a prisoner’s rectum feels more evil than some other types of rape, but I’m not going to offer any moral calculus about it. It’s all evil. Killing after raping is more evil, I’ll agree. I condemn the evil actions on both sides. Rape is never justified, even against a mass-rapist or mass-murderer. Also, the woman you invoked was likely dead by the time Hamas got her body, so she was not tortured as the Palestinian prisoner in the video was allegedly. Again I don’t really want to do moral calculus, but it does make a difference if you insist on comparing these crimes. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/world/middleeast/shani-louk-german-israel-woman-hamas-dead.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/world/middleeast/shani-lo...
- DSingularity 1y ago
  [flagged]
- cholantesh 1y ago
  There is no mention of rape, let alone mass-rape, let alone mass-rape that was sanctioned and systematized by Palestinian authorities and venerated by the Palestinian public in the article you linked. That aside, no, the normalization of punitive rape as retribution for war/revenge rape is not the hallmark of a healthy society, particularly one that anoints itself a beacon of post-Enlightenment, secular, liberal democratic values in a region it purports is barren of them.
  - spwa4 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - cholantesh 11mo ago
      Looks like you missed the part where I rather clearly said "in the article you linked". As for the articles you just linked because of this, literally none of them evince the charge that Hamas directed its brigades to gangrape hostages, let alone that Palestinians cheered this on. And again, it's pretty wild that you would argue that a healthy society tacitly or explicitly (it's the latter in Israel's case) encourages revenge rape, especially when it quite literally had always called itself the vanguard of the west in the middle east, the most moral army in the world, etc.
Lord-Jobo 1y ago
No wonder our leaders have gotten along so well in modern history (U.S.) What is happening in these modern democracies that has led to this sick embrace of cruelty, pessimism ,and apathy? It really feels like pessimism is the rot or maybe anti-optimism; how can things ever get better if the culture rejects the idea that better things are possible? Better things are possible, very difficult, and extremely necessary. Fight for it.
stanfordkid 1y ago
And all we have to do to have them roll over on our command is to threaten the halt of the billions of weapons and aid we send annually. My main issue is that Israel/US relations feel like the tail is wagging the dog. Israel exists because of the West. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that we have immense leverage over them due to them being surrounded by enemies and dependent on US weapons systems like the Iron Dome... we can basically force them to do whatever it is we want. I blame the US and the bought politicians for the tragedy in Gaza as much as I do the Israeli's. I have the feeling Israel simply will go the way of Rhodesia within a few generations due to the actions of this war resulting in widespread de-legitimization on both sides of the political spectrum and especially generationally. No one in the US actually wants to spend tax money on a patch of land in the Middle East the size of New Jersey, especially if they don't behave.
- tguvot 1y ago
  US military aid is around 1% of budget. The consensus in Israel is to stop accepting this aid from USA. Iron Dome is Israeli weapon system. Out of all weapons that Israel gets from USA the only things that Israel doesn't produce domestically are planes (Usa killed Israeli fighter jet project 40 years ago) and helicopters. All other weapon systems are domestically produced. Israel is eighth largest arms exporter in world
  - stanfordkid 1y ago
    I'm not so sure that is entirely accurate. Most of Israel's military superiority is based completely on air supremacy -- Dahiya doctrine. Even w/ F-35's this requires tons of US produced munitions (smart bombs etc). The Iron Dome system was jointly designed by US/Israel and most of the actual consumables are supplied by Raytheon. I think it is accurate to say that if the US wanted to cripple Israel they pretty much could do so on a whim, using nothing more than sanctions. That also applies to any other non-superpower country of course. What I mean to say, we could sanction them like Russia etc. and it would probably have a much larger impact if we really wanted them to do what we want.
    - 1y ago

One of the rapists is now paraded as a hero on Israeli TV. Sick, sick society.

by ebbi 1y ago

One of the rapists is now paraded as a hero on Israeli TV. Sick, sick society.

Protostome 1y ago

[flagged]

Steven420 1y ago
Do you have any evidence of any of this?
- Protostome 1y ago
  of what? bodies of women paraded on the streets?

spwa4 1y ago

[flagged]

actionfromafar 1y ago
There was a time when rule of law was an aspiration. Sectarian violence and revenge may be sometimes understandable, but never laudable, IMHO.
- red-iron-pine 1y ago
  the middle east has rarely played by those rules, not in recent memory anyway.
gausswho 1y ago
Rape whataboutism.
zzrrt 1y ago
> is Israeli society, by supporting this woman, perhaps expressing support for punishing rapists and mass murderers, even where such punishment does not entirely follow the rules? It’s unclear what woman you refer to, but anyway I don’t think there is enough “support for punishing rapists” to cancel out the riots in support of the alleged rapists, or the government, military, and media campaign to demonize the whistleblower with incendiary lies like “blood libel.”
- spwa4 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - lesuorac 1y ago
    If you don't think a single Gazan goes to jail then I have a bridge to sell you ...
    - scotho3 1y ago
      how many will go to jail, prosecuted by other Gazans, in Gaza?
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    Hm, I thought the Israeli killrate was only 50x Hamas.
  - zzrrt 1y ago
    Honestly, cold-blooded shoving a stick into a prisoner’s rectum feels more evil than some other types of rape, but I’m not going to offer any moral calculus about it. It’s all evil. Killing after raping is more evil, I’ll agree. I condemn the evil actions on both sides. Rape is never justified, even against a mass-rapist or mass-murderer. Also, the woman you invoked was likely dead by the time Hamas got her body, so she was not tortured as the Palestinian prisoner in the video was allegedly. Again I don’t really want to do moral calculus, but it does make a difference if you insist on comparing these crimes. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/world/middleeast/shani-louk-german-israel-woman-hamas-dead.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/30/world/middleeast/shani-lo...
DSingularity 1y ago
[flagged]
cholantesh 1y ago
There is no mention of rape, let alone mass-rape, let alone mass-rape that was sanctioned and systematized by Palestinian authorities and venerated by the Palestinian public in the article you linked. That aside, no, the normalization of punitive rape as retribution for war/revenge rape is not the hallmark of a healthy society, particularly one that anoints itself a beacon of post-Enlightenment, secular, liberal democratic values in a region it purports is barren of them.
- spwa4 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - cholantesh 11mo ago
    Looks like you missed the part where I rather clearly said "in the article you linked". As for the articles you just linked because of this, literally none of them evince the charge that Hamas directed its brigades to gangrape hostages, let alone that Palestinians cheered this on. And again, it's pretty wild that you would argue that a healthy society tacitly or explicitly (it's the latter in Israel's case) encourages revenge rape, especially when it quite literally had always called itself the vanguard of the west in the middle east, the most moral army in the world, etc.

Lord-Jobo 1y ago

No wonder our leaders have gotten along so well in modern history (U.S.) What is happening in these modern democracies that has led to this sick embrace of cruelty, pessimism ,and apathy? It really feels like pessimism is the rot or maybe anti-optimism; how can things ever get better if the culture rejects the idea that better things are possible? Better things are possible, very difficult, and extremely necessary. Fight for it.

stanfordkid 1y ago

And all we have to do to have them roll over on our command is to threaten the halt of the billions of weapons and aid we send annually. My main issue is that Israel/US relations feel like the tail is wagging the dog. Israel exists because of the West. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that we have immense leverage over them due to them being surrounded by enemies and dependent on US weapons systems like the Iron Dome... we can basically force them to do whatever it is we want. I blame the US and the bought politicians for the tragedy in Gaza as much as I do the Israeli's. I have the feeling Israel simply will go the way of Rhodesia within a few generations due to the actions of this war resulting in widespread de-legitimization on both sides of the political spectrum and especially generationally. No one in the US actually wants to spend tax money on a patch of land in the Middle East the size of New Jersey, especially if they don't behave.

tguvot 1y ago
US military aid is around 1% of budget. The consensus in Israel is to stop accepting this aid from USA. Iron Dome is Israeli weapon system. Out of all weapons that Israel gets from USA the only things that Israel doesn't produce domestically are planes (Usa killed Israeli fighter jet project 40 years ago) and helicopters. All other weapon systems are domestically produced. Israel is eighth largest arms exporter in world
- stanfordkid 1y ago
  I'm not so sure that is entirely accurate. Most of Israel's military superiority is based completely on air supremacy -- Dahiya doctrine. Even w/ F-35's this requires tons of US produced munitions (smart bombs etc). The Iron Dome system was jointly designed by US/Israel and most of the actual consumables are supplied by Raytheon. I think it is accurate to say that if the US wanted to cripple Israel they pretty much could do so on a whim, using nothing more than sanctions. That also applies to any other non-superpower country of course. What I mean to say, we could sanction them like Russia etc. and it would probably have a much larger impact if we really wanted them to do what we want.
  - 1y ago