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The Britishisation of American English
- nicholassmith 14y agoMaybe eventually the Britishisation will extend to returning the 'u' to colour so I make far, far fewer typos. Although it's interesting see the cross-pollenisation that seems to be happening linguistically thanks to media shifting both ways across the pond. Often used to be American imported media flowing into Britain with very few things leaving, but it seems like there's more American Doctor Who fans than British ones now.
- npsimons 14y agoI still think it's funny that for a culture that was so at odds with the French that their slang for toilet is named after a line of French kings, they still spell things like the French ("colour" being one example, "theatre" another). As to Doctor Who, well, it's more soap opera than science fiction these days (and has been for a while), so it's no surprise that it's wildly popular in the states.
- heyitsnick 14y ago> I still think it's funny that for a culture that was so at odds with the French ... they still spell things like the French ("colour" being one example, "theatre" another). But the word descends directly from the French language; 30% of English is from the French, it's largest influence (another 30% is from latin, 30% from Germanic, and the rest from other sources). So it's not that we are choosing to 'spell things like the French': the word IS French, as are countless other words. It's our biggest source of vocab.
- JumpCrisscross 14y agoThe reason nearly a third of English words derive from French (the same proportion as directly from Latin, which the romantic languages, e.g. French, derive from) is because the British Isles were largely conquered by William the Conqueror (to the Brits) in the 11th century.
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- TamDenholm 14y ago"Typo" would be another one, I'd always say "Spelling mistake" instead. I had no experience of the word "typo" until i started noticing it in American TV.
- _dps 14y ago<pedantic clarification> For those who first encounter the word "typo" indirectly as TamDenholm did, it's worth noting that a typo is not just any spelling mistake; it is a mis-spelling rendered in a type-set text and arising not through the author's ignorance of spelling but rather through a mis-operation of the typing apparatus (often arising through hasty typing). For elaboration, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typographical_error http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typographical_error. If one believed (erroneously) that "spelling" were correctly rendered "speling", that would not be a typo but a spelling mistake. On the other hand, if one rendered it "speling" because of a finger slip on the second press of the "l" key then it would be a typo. </pedantic clarification>
- Vivtek 14y agoCute. Their sidebar isn't all that accurate, though. "Called Joe" a Britishism? 'Fraid not, chaps. Booking a flight? Also not that British. And "an American would say" is more than a little offensive, although surely not intentionally. Also they missed "wanker" - which has been used a lot lately. It's a good word.
- Jabbles 14y agoWhilst teaching someone programming the other day I realised that the overloaded word "call" causes great problems. I had to correct "a function called main" to "a function named main", in order to make sense of "calling a function". Before then I had been unaware that I use the word for different meanings.
- eroded 14y ago>"an American would say" is more than a little offensive Wait, what? What's offensive about that?
- mhurron 14y agoWell, an American would say it's offensive, but they're all just a bunch of fucking cunts so just tell them to piss off. Internationalized for the Limeys.
- malvim 14y agoNon-American here, and I failed to see how "an American would say" is offensive. It seems to me that it's just pointing out the differences, which doesn't ring as offensive at all. Would you care to explain? (I am genuinely asking this question out of curiosity, not criticizing) Also, +1 on "wanker". It is indeed a good word.
- Vivtek 14y agoSorry - in politics, the worst possible thing one American can do to another is to imply that they're not really American. I'm a liberal from Indiana - that may or may not mean anything to you - but somebody identifying me as a not-quite-American based on something I say that maybe sounds too posh really raises my hackles, even as I realize, full well, that it's a really stupid reaction. Even then, I didn't really notice it until I'd read three things I say that an American wouldn't. Dammit. It's like the time that chick in Germany tried to tell me I don't speak English, just American. I may not know everything, but by God and St. George I am the utter master of my dialect and precisely how and when it differs from whatever we Anglophones deem "standard".
- itsmequinn 14y agoYou mean Britishization? USA USA
- diazamet 14y agoI think in British English it is more common to say 'best before date' rather than 'sell-by date'. One 'Britishisation' I wish the US would get is 'I couldn't care less', meaning I care about some thing as little as possible, yet in the US they insist on say 'I could care less' which makes no sense.
- Jabbles 14y ago'best before date' and 'sell-by date' refer to different things and are usually separated by a few days. e.g. http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01420/date_1420148c.jpg http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01420/date_14201...
- diazamet 14y agoYes but in general conversation people would normally just refer to the 'best before' date. Also, not everything has a 'display until' or 'sell-by' date.
- freehunter 14y agoI don't think that's British vs American, that's more proper grammar vs improper grammar. You wouldn't hear anyone of any stature seriously trying to suggest that "could care less" is American English. My opinion is that it's one of those things people hear spoken more than they see written and the tendency to say "could'n care less" (without the hard stop on the 't'). Kind of like something I see on HN quite often, "kind've".
- diazamet 14y agoGranted, it's not necessarily a UK vs US -ism but I come across it most often on US websites.
- SideburnsOfDoom 14y agoAs someone resident in the UK, I am quite sure that it is in fact a UK vs US-ism. I wouldn't know if everyone in the US uses the phrase "I could care less" but I am sure that no-one over here does. Which makes it an American turn of phrase since it is found no-where else.
- cbs 14y ago"that sort of London glottal stop", dropping the T in words like "important" or "Manhattan". So I agree with the premise of this article, but the glottal stop is found in many regional American accents. The internet removes language barriers from lines drawn on the ground, and this small difference has sped up a still very, very slow process started by television. Language is evolving towards a single shared language, right now we can see the regional differences falling away between nations. TV has dissolved much of the regional differences within the US. The difference is still there, and probably always will be, but its a lot weaker than it was a few decades ago.
- untakenusername 14y agoThe use of the glottal stop for the /t/ in "Manhattan" is how New York City natives born throughout the 20th century generally pronounced it, other than possibly elite class speakers. And you're correct that such glottalization occurs in other contexts in many regional US accents. The suggestion that this might be a result of recent British English influence is absurd.
- Vivtek 14y agoIt's actually more likely to be a holdover from very old British English influence - the Irish and Scots press-ganged white slaves who fled into the hills of Virginia and became the rednecks of coal country. I know that's where I get most of my dialect, even though I grew up in Indiana (so I also get a Blues-Brothersish Chicagoan avoidance of theta, to end up with that unique Hoosier accent that non-obsessives don't notice). London doesn't have a monopoly on glottal stops.
- ArbitraryLimits 14y agoI grew up in Minnesota and moved to southern California as an adult, and after listening very hard for any trace of an accent out here, the only thing I've noticed is that Caucasians who grew up here and went to AP english classes enunciate their T's very clearly. It's kind of weird because that kind of kid in the upper Midwest is very careful to turn the T into a glottal stop, to fit in with everyone else.
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- vacri 14y agoI wonder if there'll be agreement on 'irony'. In British English, the ironic happening must necessarily be unintentional. It doesn't have to be unknown, just go against the intentions of the act (eg: an anticrime bill that the beat police know will raise crime) In contrast, Americans often use 'irony' in an intentional manner. Selecting an ironic t-shirt to wear. Or the phrase that clued me into this: "The photographer has arranged the model's foot ironically".
- smcl 14y agoThere's a good semi-serious rant by comedian Brian Limond on the reverse (though I have a feeling that there are plenty of other rants on this topic): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnGPgCVJUsI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnGPgCVJUsI I would claim not to mind it, but when I think for a minute I realise that the spelling of various words like "fibre" annoy me, as well as the mm/dd/yy format (and "November 15th" instead of "November the 15th"), and describing football/sports teams as "it" instead of "they" (i.e. "Real Madrid is on an amazing run of form" vs "Real Madrid are on an amazing run of form").
- iuguy 14y agoI really wanted to like Limmy's show, I really did, but after 3 episodes I found I'd barely laughed, and even then only at Deedee's overanalysis of what the hardest item in his kitchen was.
- smcl 14y agoYeah some of the sketches are a bit tough, but overall I like him. His twitter is ridiculous though, worth following for at least a week or so - you'll see what I mean.
- jacques_chester 14y agoThere's also the distinct English dialects spoken in the various former colonies. These tend to more closely follow the original English and so, by way of analogy with a certain international institution, people talk about Commonwealth English. It's interesting how the entire shape of Australian English was set by the early settlers -- you can still distinct dialects of Strine spoken in different parts of the country. Or the way that the vowel-lotto that New Zealanders play with "Unglush" has a lot to do with the heavy settlement of NZ by Scots. I guess eventually we'll all speak the same English. It'll give the French something even bigger to hate. Manifique.
- Gmo 14y agoI know it was a tongue in the cheek comment, but if you want to attack the "French", try to at least do it correctly. It is "magnifique".
- jacques_chester 14y agoQuelle horreur, my mother will be mortified. (I know I am)
- droithomme 14y agoI have acquired many of these by means of exchanging email with British customers. It's nothing worth getting anyone's knickers in a twist about, I rather fancy some of the phrases. Cheers.
- grose 14y ago"Unlike in the UK, there is no anti-ginger prejudice in the US, she says - Americans think of warm, comforting things like gingerbread." As someone who grew up in America (with not ginger, but slightly reddish hair) I find this to very untrue. There's even a whole South Park episode* making fun of gingers, and there's few things more American than that. Maybe it's a relatively new thing, but I doubt many young Americans think of warm ginger bread. * http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e11-ginger-kids http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e11-ginger-...
- a1k0n 14y agoI grew up in the Midwest, and that south park episode was the first I'd ever heard of ginger-bashing. Or the term "ginger" for that matter.
- nollidge 14y agoThe gingerbread comment is silly, but I think that any supposed anti-ginger prejudice in the U.S. is firmly tongue-in-cheek. I don't think I've ever heard anyone seriously disparage red-haired people here.
- arethuza 14y agoDepends on which part of the UK - Scotland has the highest proportion of redheads of anywhere in world (13%) according to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair [Scots are often rather pugnaciously proud of their red hair.]
- tokenadult 14y agoFrom the article: "She sees this as clearly tied to the publication in the US of the first Harry Potter book. Dozens of words and phrases were changed for the American market, but ginger slipped through, as did snog (meaning 'to kiss amorously') - though that has not proved so popular." I think this is one of the correctly described mechanisms for the spread of British terms into American English. The Harry Potter novels are wildly popular here in the United States, and as I recall the later novels (which were published simultaneously worldwide to prevent pirate editions) were less edited to match United States usage than the earlier United States editions of the novels. "The use of university, rather than college or school, for example, may well be used by Americans to make sure they are understood outside the country." I definitely consciously use the term "university" (which was the proper name for my undergraduate institution of higher education) when I want to be understood by Canadians, who don't read "college" with the same implication as Americans do Here in Minnesota, anyone can regularly hear BBC broadcasts by rebroadcasting on Minnesota Public Radio, and there are other parts of the United States where BBC is available over the air, besides much of British broadcasting being available over the Internet. For college-educated adults, a great way to pick up interesting bits of British usage in English is reading The Economist, one of my favorite sources for new submissions here to HN. For many young people across the United States, one big source of exposure to (regional) British speech is participation in youth soccer programs, which are often coached by British expatriates. For all that, we would have to describe the expected future path of English to be further koineization, with more simplification of structure and worldwide spread of useful words and phrases, as an astounding variety of mash-ups of second-language speakers use English as an interlanguage all over the world. In other words, sometimes the American way of speaking will join the pattern of world English, and sometimes the British, and no doubt sometimes Caribbean or African or south Asian or southeast Asian varieties of English will join in as well.
- Gormo 14y agoThe "university" vs. "college" usage in America is also influenced by the increasing trend of local community colleges initiating four-year degree programs and dropping the word "community" from their names. Despite offering a limited set of bachelor's degrees, these schools are still regarded as somewhat low in prestige, so those who obtained their bachelor's degrees from more traditional institutions have begun to emphasize the difference by saying "university" instead of "college". IIRC, the distinction in usage arose from the fact that when the first "institutions of higher learning" were founded in America, they were initially quite small, and intended to merge together into larger universities as additional institutions were subsequently founded; instead the individual colleges ended up expanding as independent institutions and ultimately dividing themselves into multiple "departments". It wasn't until the 19th century that the term "university" began to be used by American institutions.
- dpark 14y ago> The same thing might be influencing a trend that Yagoda has spotted for Americans to use the day, month, year format for dates - 26/9/12 rather than 9/26/12. Is this actually happening? I see YY(YY)/MM/DD sometimes (that's what I use, albeit with hyphens), but I've never seen an American use DD/MM/YY in the US.
- kbenson 14y agoMy wife always rolls her eyes when I fill out forms with dates in YYYY-MM-DD (ISO 8601) format. I feel it's my duty to help in this small way to liberate people from crappy date formats. :) For electronic record keeping, the benefits over the American standard of m/d/yy or the British standard of d/m/yy are plain.
- dpark 14y agoMy wife doesn't seem to care too much, though I think she's asked me about it before. The big benefit is that it's nonambiguous. No one is going to see YYYY-MM-DD and be confused about the date (YY-MM-DD is a different story for at least a few more months). Natural sorting in electronic systems is a huge plus, though.
- Vivtek 14y agoMy wife is Hungarian, and so does YY-MM-DD anyway. (Although rolls her eyes that the MM isn't a Roman numeral.)
- Vivtek 14y agoWhat disappoints me most about this article, though, is that it failed to point out why this is happening. More than any time in history, people using different dialects of English are in regular, day-to-day contact on the Internet. We may not share time zones (especially those crazy Aussies) but it's telling that we turn out to like each other a lot, and trade our favorite words and insults. So in closing, the authors of the article are a bunch of wankers.
- mc32 14y agoWhat a naff article. That girl in Gilligan's island wasn't called "ginger" for nothing. Sodders!