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I was discussing with some Dutch friends last night if we still considered the US a 'better' country than China. The outcome of that discussion should worry Am

I was discussing with some Dutch friends last night if we still considered the US a 'better' country than China. The outcome of that discussion should worry Americans.

bluealienpie 1y ago
America has never been concerned about anything other than America. They literally couldn't care less that they have threaten to take over Canada... Potentially Greenland and Panama militarily.
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  That's just blatantly false. American power derives not only from raw power, but from alliances. It will be apparent, that it's really hard to get things done when your former allies start slowrolling all your requests. Unless you mean it like, "countries have no friends", but that's not a very interesting observation.
  - jack_tripper 1y ago
    Now THAT is blatantly false. American power today stems from its power, military and fiscally (which is also backed militarily). Most countries in the world today are allied to the US out of economic, trade and defense necessity and co-dependence, because all other alternatives are worse for them due to the immense asimetric power disparity. This might shock you but most countries in the world don't like the US government and its policies, especially after their illegal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, but have no way to push back without negative repercussions to their economy, so they have to play along as allies whether they like it or not for their own good. Feel free to down vote all you want, but I'm not revealing anything new or controversial here but it's the truth as all countries, kingdoms and empires throughout history have had alliances with others they didn't like, out of sheer necessity. Same how we in the liberal west have also been trading and having economic ties with the CCP, post-Crimean invasion Russia, Erdogan's Turkey and middle eastern countries that assassinate our journalists, as capitalism post-USSR collapse has prioritized monetary enrichment over fighting for upholding a western ideology.
    - actionfromafar 1y ago
      Turns out, that the US has succeeded in making other alternatives better, by making itself less attractive. Canada is making deals with China. That's an incredible own goal by the US.
      - mrsmrtss 1y ago
        Also, Europe does not trust the US anymore. It's rather embarrassing and sad that what has become of this once great country.
      - jack_tripper 1y ago
        Define "better". Currently no county, even China can't replace the US as a trading partner in terms of how much the US consumer base buys from us(the European export base I mean) and the kind of technology the US provides back in return. Until China's consumer purchasing power comes close, we're stuck with the US as our main pay piggy. Plus, I don't think replacing the US with China, a dictatorship that's running slave labor camps, has no human rights or freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, etc, as the main world superpower, is the best idea. So, how people can promote cozying up to the CCP as some sort of win just to stick it to Trump, is beyond me. It's as narrow minded as the people who were promoting Russian gas dependency as some sort of political victory, until it bit them in the ass and is now costing us through the nose. Why don't people learn from history that cutting your nose to spite your face is not a wise long term strategy? As bad as Trump is he's only got 3 more years in power until next elections while the CCP is a forever evil pretending to be your friend playing the Embrace Extend Extinguish long game.
        jcattle 1y ago
        > As bad as Trump is he's only got 3 more years in power until next elections And even in the "best case" scenario where trump does not win that next election, what are you left with then? A new reality where potentially the office of the president has widely increased powers. Depending on what the supreme court says on wednesday the president will now be able to raise tarrifs at will, send the army into domestic cities at will, have the army kill foreign civil citizens we are not at war with at will and a massively expanded ICE agency which will be really hard to downsize for later administrations.
  - chronci3830 1y ago
    > American power derives not only from raw power, but from alliances. Alliances form out of fear. Fear of being crushed by the US military. The largest Air Force in the world? US Air Force. Second largest Air Force? US navy.
    - VBprogrammer 1y ago
      And yet you couldn't even capture and hold a shitty backwater like Afghanistan. The last US military action widely regarded as a success was the first Gulf war but, I didn't know about you, but I like my successful military actions to come without a part II.
      - jonway 1y ago
        Point taken here, but do come off it. Afghanistan is extremely difficult to control and has been for thousands of years.
        mdhb 1y ago
        They had no navy, no army and no airforce to defend it. I think the criticism is entirely valid.
        jonway 1y ago
        It is if you look at a map and conclude the terrain is flat. It is a nightmare for any military. This is a funny chortle, I geddit, but if we're to take this at face value: Alexander the Great's army was garbage. He managed barely by marrying a local noblewoman after a long and frustrating campaign. He had the benefit of not being on the opposite side of the planet. America had to fly over Iran to get there. Super easy. The British were garbage. The first Anglo-Afghan war went .... poorly. They had the same experience as the US forces. The second Anglo-Afghan war went great! They defeated the Afghan army! A few months later they lost Kabul, their forces collapsed immediately, being slaughtered again by Afghanis. They reinvaded, failed, and retreated. They would have totally won if they had an air force. The Soviet military was garbage. They struggled for a decade to prop up their own government there. (Sound familiar yet?) There was a third Anglo-Afghan war. This time the British won handily. Just kidding, they failed yet again, like everyone else. This is like me telling you: "If you're so smart, why aren't you a billionaire?" Well, that isn't how it works, is it?
verisimi 1y ago
We all want to know the outcome! When will we get it? Which country do those Dutch people think is the better one?
- rob74 1y ago
  I probably wouldn't consider China a "better" country than the US, but at least it's more consistent, and you can mostly rely on it not to cut off its nose to spite its face...
- croon 1y ago
  I think the point is that an actual discussion having to take place is enough to worry about.
- spiderfarmer 1y ago
  Neither.
bakql 1y ago
[flagged]
- vachina 1y ago
  Ignorance is bliss.
- spiderfarmer 1y ago
  Luckily there are lots of Americans left who are more worried by replies like yours, than comments like mine.
Terr_ 1y ago
Look for the big downward diagonal... https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-countries-with-the-best-reputations-in-2025/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-countries-with-the-b...
serf 1y ago
'Americans worry about this one little thing, click here to find out.' this negative-space begs-the-question story-telling that is popular lately feels weird. "And you know what he said Tommy?" If you want to tell us about public sentiment towards Americans then just do it -- don't pawn the social liability off on your Dutch friends. But let me take a guess : they really liked us and were in-tune with social policies and hopeful for the future. ...Right?
- spiderfarmer 1y ago
  You sound worried. Good.
ggm 1y ago
In the context of trade, you might get a different answer to in the context of arts, life and culture. If you get to stay in the NL and its only visible impacts in your economy of trade, that's entirely different to "where do I want to live"
- spiderfarmer 1y ago
  It's not about trade. We always have traded with the entire world, no matter the regimes, as long as they weren't outright hostile to us. It's just that Americans act like they are the best country in the world, while they never top a single positive index. American life and culture are not attractive to Europeans and you have beautiful art all over the world.
jojobas 1y ago
Assuming your friends even considered China being in the same league in terms of good and evil, they don't seem to lend this a lot of thought.
- spiderfarmer 1y ago
  Does it matter if the whole world gives it as much thought as we did? Can you define 'perception' and why this should worry Americans? And hey, I grew up in a culture that loved the USA. There are lots of countries where that's the opposite.
  - jojobas 1y ago
    It does. Not killing a bunch of people is important even if some bunch of people think you're no better than Charles Manson.
    - spiderfarmer 1y ago
      Which country bombs people in international waters?
      - jojobas 1y ago
        Dealing with drug smugglers vs destroying a whole nation? Tough one, I know.
        spiderfarmer 1y ago
        You really don't care about perception. I get it. It's typical American behaviour. This is the root cause of your downfall.
        jojobas 1y ago
        I've never been to America, North or South. I have however lived in the soviet bloc. The fact that "perception" can cause Dutchmen to have preposterous opinions about China (and formerly USSR), being protected from the fate of Poland/Czechoslovakia by none other than the US, just reveals how effective propaganda is.
kfterrg67 1y ago
[flagged]
- sph 1y ago
  I think you greatly underestimate the impact of the recent US administration on global opinion. If some Dutch people changed their mind about the US, so can diplomats and politicians. How do you believe a country can maintain its hegemonic position if it does its utmost to reverse a hundred years of propaganda and cultural status?
  - kfterrg67 1y ago
    [flagged]
- spiderfarmer 1y ago
  I grew up in a culture that loved the USA. There are lots of countries where that's the opposite. Can you define 'perception' and why it matters, especially on a global level?

I was discussing with some Dutch friends last night if we still considered the US a 'better' country than China. The outcome of that discussion should worry Americans.

bluealienpie 1y ago

America has never been concerned about anything other than America. They literally couldn't care less that they have threaten to take over Canada... Potentially Greenland and Panama militarily.

actionfromafar 1y ago
That's just blatantly false. American power derives not only from raw power, but from alliances. It will be apparent, that it's really hard to get things done when your former allies start slowrolling all your requests. Unless you mean it like, "countries have no friends", but that's not a very interesting observation.
- jack_tripper 1y ago
  Now THAT is blatantly false. American power today stems from its power, military and fiscally (which is also backed militarily). Most countries in the world today are allied to the US out of economic, trade and defense necessity and co-dependence, because all other alternatives are worse for them due to the immense asimetric power disparity. This might shock you but most countries in the world don't like the US government and its policies, especially after their illegal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, but have no way to push back without negative repercussions to their economy, so they have to play along as allies whether they like it or not for their own good. Feel free to down vote all you want, but I'm not revealing anything new or controversial here but it's the truth as all countries, kingdoms and empires throughout history have had alliances with others they didn't like, out of sheer necessity. Same how we in the liberal west have also been trading and having economic ties with the CCP, post-Crimean invasion Russia, Erdogan's Turkey and middle eastern countries that assassinate our journalists, as capitalism post-USSR collapse has prioritized monetary enrichment over fighting for upholding a western ideology.
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    Turns out, that the US has succeeded in making other alternatives better, by making itself less attractive. Canada is making deals with China. That's an incredible own goal by the US.
    - mrsmrtss 1y ago
      Also, Europe does not trust the US anymore. It's rather embarrassing and sad that what has become of this once great country.
    - jack_tripper 1y ago
      Define "better". Currently no county, even China can't replace the US as a trading partner in terms of how much the US consumer base buys from us(the European export base I mean) and the kind of technology the US provides back in return. Until China's consumer purchasing power comes close, we're stuck with the US as our main pay piggy. Plus, I don't think replacing the US with China, a dictatorship that's running slave labor camps, has no human rights or freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, etc, as the main world superpower, is the best idea. So, how people can promote cozying up to the CCP as some sort of win just to stick it to Trump, is beyond me. It's as narrow minded as the people who were promoting Russian gas dependency as some sort of political victory, until it bit them in the ass and is now costing us through the nose. Why don't people learn from history that cutting your nose to spite your face is not a wise long term strategy? As bad as Trump is he's only got 3 more years in power until next elections while the CCP is a forever evil pretending to be your friend playing the Embrace Extend Extinguish long game.
      - jcattle 1y ago
        > As bad as Trump is he's only got 3 more years in power until next elections And even in the "best case" scenario where trump does not win that next election, what are you left with then? A new reality where potentially the office of the president has widely increased powers. Depending on what the supreme court says on wednesday the president will now be able to raise tarrifs at will, send the army into domestic cities at will, have the army kill foreign civil citizens we are not at war with at will and a massively expanded ICE agency which will be really hard to downsize for later administrations.
- chronci3830 1y ago
  > American power derives not only from raw power, but from alliances. Alliances form out of fear. Fear of being crushed by the US military. The largest Air Force in the world? US Air Force. Second largest Air Force? US navy.
  - VBprogrammer 1y ago
    And yet you couldn't even capture and hold a shitty backwater like Afghanistan. The last US military action widely regarded as a success was the first Gulf war but, I didn't know about you, but I like my successful military actions to come without a part II.
    - jonway 1y ago
      Point taken here, but do come off it. Afghanistan is extremely difficult to control and has been for thousands of years.
      - mdhb 1y ago
        They had no navy, no army and no airforce to defend it. I think the criticism is entirely valid.
        jonway 1y ago
        It is if you look at a map and conclude the terrain is flat. It is a nightmare for any military. This is a funny chortle, I geddit, but if we're to take this at face value: Alexander the Great's army was garbage. He managed barely by marrying a local noblewoman after a long and frustrating campaign. He had the benefit of not being on the opposite side of the planet. America had to fly over Iran to get there. Super easy. The British were garbage. The first Anglo-Afghan war went .... poorly. They had the same experience as the US forces. The second Anglo-Afghan war went great! They defeated the Afghan army! A few months later they lost Kabul, their forces collapsed immediately, being slaughtered again by Afghanis. They reinvaded, failed, and retreated. They would have totally won if they had an air force. The Soviet military was garbage. They struggled for a decade to prop up their own government there. (Sound familiar yet?) There was a third Anglo-Afghan war. This time the British won handily. Just kidding, they failed yet again, like everyone else. This is like me telling you: "If you're so smart, why aren't you a billionaire?" Well, that isn't how it works, is it?

verisimi 1y ago

We all want to know the outcome! When will we get it? Which country do those Dutch people think is the better one?

rob74 1y ago
I probably wouldn't consider China a "better" country than the US, but at least it's more consistent, and you can mostly rely on it not to cut off its nose to spite its face...
croon 1y ago
I think the point is that an actual discussion having to take place is enough to worry about.
spiderfarmer 1y ago
Neither.

bakql 1y ago

[flagged]

vachina 1y ago
Ignorance is bliss.
spiderfarmer 1y ago
Luckily there are lots of Americans left who are more worried by replies like yours, than comments like mine.

Terr_ 1y ago

Look for the big downward diagonal... https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-countries-with-the-best-reputations-in-2025/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-countries-with-the-b...

serf 1y ago

'Americans worry about this one little thing, click here to find out.' this negative-space begs-the-question story-telling that is popular lately feels weird. "And you know what he said Tommy?" If you want to tell us about public sentiment towards Americans then just do it -- don't pawn the social liability off on your Dutch friends. But let me take a guess : they really liked us and were in-tune with social policies and hopeful for the future. ...Right?

spiderfarmer 1y ago
You sound worried. Good.

ggm 1y ago

In the context of trade, you might get a different answer to in the context of arts, life and culture. If you get to stay in the NL and its only visible impacts in your economy of trade, that's entirely different to "where do I want to live"

spiderfarmer 1y ago
It's not about trade. We always have traded with the entire world, no matter the regimes, as long as they weren't outright hostile to us. It's just that Americans act like they are the best country in the world, while they never top a single positive index. American life and culture are not attractive to Europeans and you have beautiful art all over the world.

jojobas 1y ago

Assuming your friends even considered China being in the same league in terms of good and evil, they don't seem to lend this a lot of thought.

spiderfarmer 1y ago
Does it matter if the whole world gives it as much thought as we did? Can you define 'perception' and why this should worry Americans? And hey, I grew up in a culture that loved the USA. There are lots of countries where that's the opposite.
- jojobas 1y ago
  It does. Not killing a bunch of people is important even if some bunch of people think you're no better than Charles Manson.
  - spiderfarmer 1y ago
    Which country bombs people in international waters?
    - jojobas 1y ago
      Dealing with drug smugglers vs destroying a whole nation? Tough one, I know.
      - spiderfarmer 1y ago
        You really don't care about perception. I get it. It's typical American behaviour. This is the root cause of your downfall.
        jojobas 1y ago
        I've never been to America, North or South. I have however lived in the soviet bloc. The fact that "perception" can cause Dutchmen to have preposterous opinions about China (and formerly USSR), being protected from the fate of Poland/Czechoslovakia by none other than the US, just reveals how effective propaganda is.

kfterrg67 1y ago

[flagged]

sph 1y ago
I think you greatly underestimate the impact of the recent US administration on global opinion. If some Dutch people changed their mind about the US, so can diplomats and politicians. How do you believe a country can maintain its hegemonic position if it does its utmost to reverse a hundred years of propaganda and cultural status?
- kfterrg67 1y ago
  [flagged]
spiderfarmer 1y ago
I grew up in a culture that loved the USA. There are lots of countries where that's the opposite. Can you define 'perception' and why it matters, especially on a global level?