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Why on Earth would they intentionally export only their garbage cheese? Then the world will only know them for that. The holes in modern Emmental cheese are c

Why on Earth would they intentionally export only their garbage cheese? Then the world will only know them for that. The holes in modern Emmental cheese are created intentionally. In Switzerland the additive used to create them is forbidden. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmental_cheese#Natural_holes_in_cheese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmental_cheese#Natural_holes_...

helicone 1y ago
because their garbage cheese is still miles better than what other people make, and there's no cheese market large enough and rich enough to pay them what their top cheese is worth, so its worth more just to keep it for themselves
- rootusrootus 1y ago
  > there's no cheese market large enough and rich enough to pay them what their top cheese is worth That sounds like the market expressing the collective opinion that their cheese is not miles better than what other people make. On a related note, the best seems to be considered Emmentaler AOC, and it does not seem especially difficult to purchase outside of Switzerland.
  - eru 1y ago
    Emmentaler is a fairly common cheese. I would expect the 'best' to be some obscure cheese that neither you nor me have heard of. I'm quite fond of the Belper Knolle, but even that ain't particularly obscure.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > would expect the 'best' to be some obscure cheese that neither you nor me have heard of …why? Gruyère and Appenzeller are delicious. They’re also well known. My favorite blue in the world is Point Reyes. Controversial when I’m in France. But not some secret undiscovered jewel.
    - rootusrootus 1y ago
      If obscurity is an important factor, there are going to be as many 'best' cheeses as there are people. For this discussion to make any sense we need something of a consensus opinion, for which Emmentaler gets nominated often enough.
- eru 1y ago
  > because their garbage cheese is still miles better than what other people make, [...] Some other people, maybe. But not all other people.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Why on Earth would they intentionally export only their garbage cheese? This usually happens when one population is discerning and the other is not.
- rootusrootus 1y ago
  I don't know what to make of that statement. It is arrogant, at least. Are you trashing just the 340 million people in the US with this comment, or everybody not-Swiss?
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > It is arrogant, at least. Are you trashing just the 340 million people in the US with this comment, or everybody not-Swiss? You’re parsing discernment as a value judgement. Don’t do that. New York City has America’s best bagels. This is because OG bagels are best fresh, and making them fresh multiple times a day takes a lot of work. (They stale super fast because gluten is a bastard. Hence toasting.) To pay for that work at a non-ludicrous cost per bagel, you need lots of reliable demand. That really only happens when you have an ecosystem of people who have been eating bagels all their lives made by folks who have been making them similarly. You don’t find great bagels outside New York (at an affordable price) because the demand isn’t there. Meanwhile, if you haven’t spent time in New York, you probably don’t know (or care about) the difference. Which means you’re unlikely to give excess patronage to anyone who tries to do it right if they try to do it near you. That doesn’t make anyone outside New York who likes their local bagel wrong; it’s just that economies make it very difficult, and frankly pointless, to replicate the New York bagel elsewhere. If the people in your town will pay extra only for great cheese and the guys across the pond will pay the same price for mediocre and great cheeses, the deck is stacked. (And to be clear, you can find great Swiss cheeses in America. What you can’t is great Swiss wines.)
    - rootusrootus 1y ago
      I'm definitely not on the same wavelength as you this evening. > New York City has America’s best bagels That's a big claim. You say it's because they are best fresh -- are you saying that the rest of the country does not have anybody who makes fresh bagels? That's what I get from your first comment, but then you moved the goalposts a bit by qualifying "at an affordable price." So maybe other cities in the US do have bagels that are just as good as NYC but they are more expensive? I see there is one final qualification you've made: "the New York bagel." In that case, obviously NYC has the best New York bagel ;).
tekno45 1y ago
so a tourist will go to switzerland love it and hate it once they're home? very good export business
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- com2kid 1y ago
  That's how I felt about eggs after visiting Japan. American eggs are bland and tasteless in comparison. Backyard eggs are a general exception to that rule.
schainks 1y ago
Same reason why it’s hard to buy a decent Swiss wine: the good stuff makes it into bellies before it gets to the border!
PetitPrince 1y ago
Different countries have different tastes (Coca Cola has a different syrup mixture for each countries for instance). There's a YouTube video from a franco-japanese guy who interview a Japanese cheese maker. He was trained by a Swiss person (but in the US, of all places) and softly complained that Japanese palate favored more bland cheese compared to what he experienced. So it makes sense for a Swiss cheese maker to export a more marketable cheese, which are generally less strong and younger than the local one. Just like there's an export Guinness or Kilkenny that different from one you'd get in Ireland. Of note: cheese label are strongly protected in Europe; you cannot legally sell an AOP labelled cheese without adhering to strict guideline about the raw material (including geographic provenance) and processing.
- marklubi 1y ago
  Similar thing with orange juice. The producers add 'flavor packs' to adjust the taste for different regions of the US. My son and I travel all over the US for various competitions, and there are certain regions where he refuses to get OJ because of the flavor differences.
  - MiddleEndian 1y ago
    I never looked into why, but when I moved from Boston to Seattle, I noticed dairy products (milk, cottage cheese) tasted different in Seattle. Confirmed it again when I moved back to Boston.
    - marklubi 1y ago
      Haven't noticed that one. Oxidation perhaps, or maybe salt in the air based on the locations? West coast food (particularly oysters) seems to be a little bit more salty/briny.
      - PetitPrince 1y ago
        What you feed your cattle change how their milk taste; where I live there's a noticeable different between summer (where cows graze on alpine meadows) and winter (hay) milk.
robocat 1y ago
Modern America doesn't seem to have much of a culture of cheese. I've just visited New Orleans, and the selection of cheese available in supermarkets was extremely limited. I recall the same issue from past visits elsewhere in the US. The fist time I visited I was horrified to see fake Bega cheese. For more choice in New Orleans I would have needed to go to a cheese shop/restaurant chain called the St James Cheese Company (I didn't visit it). I watched someone cooking a hamburger grab a slice of processed cheese (looked like a standard individual plastic packaged slice to me) and place it on top of the burger to melt (admittedly it turned out fine). Oh, and all the milk I found in New Orleans was ultra-pasteurised (abominable taste) - I didn't see any standard/HTST pasteurized milk. Apparently shelflife is more important than taste. For comparison, Supermarket milk is pasteurized here in NZ (not ultra except for longlife tetrapack) and unpasteurized milk is available in Christchurch (not at supermarket, I think in a shop in St Martins or from dairy 30km out of Christchurch). I admit that here in Christchurch for better imported cheeses I need to go to a cheesemonger. At my local supermarket today I didn't buy a yummy local aged gouda (Meyer) because it was USD40/kg : instead I bought 1 double-cream Brie (Mainland), 1 goatsmilk feta (Foodsnob - Bulgarian - cheap on special), and some "smoked flavour" processed cheese slices (Chesdale - plastic but I like it!). For Emmentaler, the supermarket has "Swiss cheese" which isn't great. They have an imported brand from Germany Emborg Emmentaler Swiss Cheese block 200g NZD9.69 (USD12.7/lb) which you wouldn't buy for its flavour.
- PopAlongKid 1y ago
  >grab a slice of processed cheese (looked like a standard individual plastic packaged slice to me) Kraft makes a plastic wrapped slice that is "cheese food", however they also make an American cheese slice that is actual cheese. I suspect you saw the latter. https://www.kraftheinz.com/kraft-deli-deluxe/products/00021000602605-deli-deluxe-american-cheese-slices https://www.kraftheinz.com/kraft-deli-deluxe/products/000210...
- soulofmischief 1y ago
  To be fair, Louisiana, for all its talk of culinary tradition, really doesn't have a lot to offer in terms of variety, compared to other states that I have lived in. This state is a backwater shithole that reminds me of a war-torn Eastern European country, even in New Orleans (which to be fair, is quite small) I wouldn't let it be a typical example of the kind of variety you can find in a modern American city.

helicone 1y ago

because their garbage cheese is still miles better than what other people make, and there's no cheese market large enough and rich enough to pay them what their top cheese is worth, so its worth more just to keep it for themselves

rootusrootus 1y ago
> there's no cheese market large enough and rich enough to pay them what their top cheese is worth That sounds like the market expressing the collective opinion that their cheese is not miles better than what other people make. On a related note, the best seems to be considered Emmentaler AOC, and it does not seem especially difficult to purchase outside of Switzerland.
- eru 1y ago
  Emmentaler is a fairly common cheese. I would expect the 'best' to be some obscure cheese that neither you nor me have heard of. I'm quite fond of the Belper Knolle, but even that ain't particularly obscure.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > would expect the 'best' to be some obscure cheese that neither you nor me have heard of …why? Gruyère and Appenzeller are delicious. They’re also well known. My favorite blue in the world is Point Reyes. Controversial when I’m in France. But not some secret undiscovered jewel.
  - rootusrootus 1y ago
    If obscurity is an important factor, there are going to be as many 'best' cheeses as there are people. For this discussion to make any sense we need something of a consensus opinion, for which Emmentaler gets nominated often enough.
eru 1y ago
> because their garbage cheese is still miles better than what other people make, [...] Some other people, maybe. But not all other people.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> Why on Earth would they intentionally export only their garbage cheese? This usually happens when one population is discerning and the other is not.

rootusrootus 1y ago
I don't know what to make of that statement. It is arrogant, at least. Are you trashing just the 340 million people in the US with this comment, or everybody not-Swiss?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > It is arrogant, at least. Are you trashing just the 340 million people in the US with this comment, or everybody not-Swiss? You’re parsing discernment as a value judgement. Don’t do that. New York City has America’s best bagels. This is because OG bagels are best fresh, and making them fresh multiple times a day takes a lot of work. (They stale super fast because gluten is a bastard. Hence toasting.) To pay for that work at a non-ludicrous cost per bagel, you need lots of reliable demand. That really only happens when you have an ecosystem of people who have been eating bagels all their lives made by folks who have been making them similarly. You don’t find great bagels outside New York (at an affordable price) because the demand isn’t there. Meanwhile, if you haven’t spent time in New York, you probably don’t know (or care about) the difference. Which means you’re unlikely to give excess patronage to anyone who tries to do it right if they try to do it near you. That doesn’t make anyone outside New York who likes their local bagel wrong; it’s just that economies make it very difficult, and frankly pointless, to replicate the New York bagel elsewhere. If the people in your town will pay extra only for great cheese and the guys across the pond will pay the same price for mediocre and great cheeses, the deck is stacked. (And to be clear, you can find great Swiss cheeses in America. What you can’t is great Swiss wines.)
  - rootusrootus 1y ago
    I'm definitely not on the same wavelength as you this evening. > New York City has America’s best bagels That's a big claim. You say it's because they are best fresh -- are you saying that the rest of the country does not have anybody who makes fresh bagels? That's what I get from your first comment, but then you moved the goalposts a bit by qualifying "at an affordable price." So maybe other cities in the US do have bagels that are just as good as NYC but they are more expensive? I see there is one final qualification you've made: "the New York bagel." In that case, obviously NYC has the best New York bagel ;).

tekno45 1y ago

so a tourist will go to switzerland love it and hate it once they're home? very good export business

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
com2kid 1y ago
That's how I felt about eggs after visiting Japan. American eggs are bland and tasteless in comparison. Backyard eggs are a general exception to that rule.

schainks 1y ago

Same reason why it’s hard to buy a decent Swiss wine: the good stuff makes it into bellies before it gets to the border!

PetitPrince 1y ago

Different countries have different tastes (Coca Cola has a different syrup mixture for each countries for instance). There's a YouTube video from a franco-japanese guy who interview a Japanese cheese maker. He was trained by a Swiss person (but in the US, of all places) and softly complained that Japanese palate favored more bland cheese compared to what he experienced. So it makes sense for a Swiss cheese maker to export a more marketable cheese, which are generally less strong and younger than the local one. Just like there's an export Guinness or Kilkenny that different from one you'd get in Ireland. Of note: cheese label are strongly protected in Europe; you cannot legally sell an AOP labelled cheese without adhering to strict guideline about the raw material (including geographic provenance) and processing.

marklubi 1y ago
Similar thing with orange juice. The producers add 'flavor packs' to adjust the taste for different regions of the US. My son and I travel all over the US for various competitions, and there are certain regions where he refuses to get OJ because of the flavor differences.
- MiddleEndian 1y ago
  I never looked into why, but when I moved from Boston to Seattle, I noticed dairy products (milk, cottage cheese) tasted different in Seattle. Confirmed it again when I moved back to Boston.
  - marklubi 1y ago
    Haven't noticed that one. Oxidation perhaps, or maybe salt in the air based on the locations? West coast food (particularly oysters) seems to be a little bit more salty/briny.
    - PetitPrince 1y ago
      What you feed your cattle change how their milk taste; where I live there's a noticeable different between summer (where cows graze on alpine meadows) and winter (hay) milk.

robocat 1y ago

Modern America doesn't seem to have much of a culture of cheese. I've just visited New Orleans, and the selection of cheese available in supermarkets was extremely limited. I recall the same issue from past visits elsewhere in the US. The fist time I visited I was horrified to see fake Bega cheese. For more choice in New Orleans I would have needed to go to a cheese shop/restaurant chain called the St James Cheese Company (I didn't visit it). I watched someone cooking a hamburger grab a slice of processed cheese (looked like a standard individual plastic packaged slice to me) and place it on top of the burger to melt (admittedly it turned out fine). Oh, and all the milk I found in New Orleans was ultra-pasteurised (abominable taste) - I didn't see any standard/HTST pasteurized milk. Apparently shelflife is more important than taste. For comparison, Supermarket milk is pasteurized here in NZ (not ultra except for longlife tetrapack) and unpasteurized milk is available in Christchurch (not at supermarket, I think in a shop in St Martins or from dairy 30km out of Christchurch). I admit that here in Christchurch for better imported cheeses I need to go to a cheesemonger. At my local supermarket today I didn't buy a yummy local aged gouda (Meyer) because it was USD40/kg : instead I bought 1 double-cream Brie (Mainland), 1 goatsmilk feta (Foodsnob - Bulgarian - cheap on special), and some "smoked flavour" processed cheese slices (Chesdale - plastic but I like it!). For Emmentaler, the supermarket has "Swiss cheese" which isn't great. They have an imported brand from Germany Emborg Emmentaler Swiss Cheese block 200g NZD9.69 (USD12.7/lb) which you wouldn't buy for its flavour.

PopAlongKid 1y ago
>grab a slice of processed cheese (looked like a standard individual plastic packaged slice to me) Kraft makes a plastic wrapped slice that is "cheese food", however they also make an American cheese slice that is actual cheese. I suspect you saw the latter. https://www.kraftheinz.com/kraft-deli-deluxe/products/00021000602605-deli-deluxe-american-cheese-slices https://www.kraftheinz.com/kraft-deli-deluxe/products/000210...
soulofmischief 1y ago
To be fair, Louisiana, for all its talk of culinary tradition, really doesn't have a lot to offer in terms of variety, compared to other states that I have lived in. This state is a backwater shithole that reminds me of a war-torn Eastern European country, even in New Orleans (which to be fair, is quite small) I wouldn't let it be a typical example of the kind of variety you can find in a modern American city.