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I dispute that? There are plenty of e.g. countries that don't bomb others, especially not for "no reason". (!) And the whole point here was about individuals be

by dataflow 11mo ago

I dispute that? There are plenty of e.g. countries that don't bomb others, especially not for "no reason". (!) And the whole point here was about individuals behaving differently when part of the collective, not about the collective having been set up with different incentives and rules than the individuals were in the first place. You can have collectives with better incentives set up and achieve more humane outcomes. Like I said, such examples really exist, they're not hypothetical.

xp84 11mo ago
Show me a country that doesn’t bother other countries — ever — and I’ll show you a country that doesn’t have any cards to play. Except for maybe isolated island nations who lack the ability to threaten anyone, all nations come into conflict with others and the only ones that “don’t [initiate aggression with] others” are the ones who lack the ability or who have done the calculation that they’d be severely slapped back if they tried, so they wisely don’t poke the bear(s).
- Art9681 11mo ago
  Well said. No organism willingly commits perceived suicide unless it's a viable strategy for its continued existence. The reason a thing exists, is because it hasn't tempted its potential predator.
- dataflow 11mo ago
  >>> Nobody rational would kill another person for no reason, but a soldier will bomb a village for the sake of their nation’s geostrategic position. >> There are plenty of e.g. countries that don't bomb others, especially not for "no reason". (!) > Show me a country that doesn’t bother other countries — ever Do you by any chance happen to feel like you may have moved the goalposts by at least a tiny inch?
  - IAmBroom 11mo ago
    The only thing that moved is the word "rational". Soldiers do things out of loyalty, training, or fear - none are "rational" decisions. And I can't name a country that doesn't bomb/attack others. Monaco? Switzerland? Tuvalu?

xp84 11mo ago

Show me a country that doesn’t bother other countries — ever — and I’ll show you a country that doesn’t have any cards to play. Except for maybe isolated island nations who lack the ability to threaten anyone, all nations come into conflict with others and the only ones that “don’t [initiate aggression with] others” are the ones who lack the ability or who have done the calculation that they’d be severely slapped back if they tried, so they wisely don’t poke the bear(s).

Art9681 11mo ago
Well said. No organism willingly commits perceived suicide unless it's a viable strategy for its continued existence. The reason a thing exists, is because it hasn't tempted its potential predator.
dataflow 11mo ago
>>> Nobody rational would kill another person for no reason, but a soldier will bomb a village for the sake of their nation’s geostrategic position. >> There are plenty of e.g. countries that don't bomb others, especially not for "no reason". (!) > Show me a country that doesn’t bother other countries — ever Do you by any chance happen to feel like you may have moved the goalposts by at least a tiny inch?
- IAmBroom 11mo ago
  The only thing that moved is the word "rational". Soldiers do things out of loyalty, training, or fear - none are "rational" decisions. And I can't name a country that doesn't bomb/attack others. Monaco? Switzerland? Tuvalu?