4 ms·

It floors me that the whole world is pretty content saying “okay cool solar/wind/renewables” and then theres the uneducated states of america who is rejecting a

It floors me that the whole world is pretty content saying “okay cool solar/wind/renewables” and then theres the uneducated states of america who is rejecting all of it

cmrdporcupine 1y ago
Don't worry, the US is actively trying to export that rejection, too, so it won't be alone. See Trump's messed up rant at the UN, and the policies and proposals of his conservative allies here in Canada. Alberta was the the fastest growing renewable producer in Canada due to high winds and long solar days and low cloud cover. The provincial government in the pocket of the oil industry banned renewable developments for months under the excuse that it was "destroying farmland" and then came back months later with a policy that hamstringed future development. to these people, renewables are a threat because they can't be a parasite off it.
- boothby 1y ago
  The astonishing thing to me is that the production of solar panels is a huge source of mining and manufacturing jobs. Just like heat pumps. If we were serious about the objectives stated by the conservatives, Canada could easily be a world leader with Alberta and Saskatchewan profiting handsomely.
  - lazide 1y ago
    Very unlikely to be able to compete with China at scale however - especially since China is already at huge scale.
    - boothby 1y ago
      As always, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. And if we take Conservative talking points in good faith, proctective trade policies buttress the economy in the long term. Right? But I think you're wrong about the extractive side -- Canada has huge rare earth reserves, and while tapping into them does require an investment of time and effort, there's no reason we couldn't compete with China there. And don't even get me started on how unattractive Canadian oil is on the international market. The same "can't compete with China" flavor of argument should apply just as well there if it makes any real sense.
      - lazide 1y ago
        Rare earths aren’t required for cheap solar. Massive silicon crystal growth factories are. And they are a major capital investment. A capital investment China did almost a decade ago at large scale.
treis 1y ago
This is performative. If it were economically viable there'd be panels in parking lots. They're not because the land isn't the expensive part. It's the installation, maintenance, and ancillary equipment that makes solar expensive these days.
- eigenspace 1y ago
  If you look at it as a way of disincentivizing wasting land on parking lots, it makes a lot of sense
  - treis 1y ago
    It's probably not going to do that either. The number of spaces per lot will move to below the limit and more lots will be created to make up the difference. The net will likely be less efficient utilization of lots leading to more overall land usage
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  Sometimes we do things that the market has failed to price properly because there is still value not captured in the economics. That is not performance, that is internalizing unpriced externalities. The free market, perfect information, and perfect prices do not exist. France has similar legislation. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/11/18/france-publishes-new-provisions-making-solar-mandatory-on-parking-areas/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/11/18/france-publishes-new-...
- cmrdporcupine 1y ago
  Yes, because the fossil fuel and energy markets are famously free of political/economic manipulation, and military and ideological intervention .. by both state and private actors. Urban planning, too.
bigstrat2003 1y ago
> the uneducated states of america It's really not cool to insult people, you know. This is in just as poor taste as when smug Americans say "Europoors".
- Forbo 1y ago
  As an American, we deserve the derision. Please, continue shaming us, maybe some day people will get sick enough of it to try to prove them wrong. That's probably asking too much, though.
  - hinkley 1y ago
    As an American who usually gets mistaken for a Canadian while traveling, I know that some of us know they aren’t talking about us, but also that the people who they are talking about aren’t even in the conversation. It’s effectively talking about people behind their back which is not that useful.
    - gnarlouse 1y ago
      When I say "the uneducated states" I'm referring to general trends: - lack of technological fluency - lack of mathematical/scientific fluency - lack of financial fluency - lack of political fluency - lack of critical thinking skills - willful engagement with streaming psy-op platforms: Facebook, Instagram, Netflix, Tiktok
      - hinkley 1y ago
        Agreed. And one of those six maybe applies to me. So I don’t sweat it, unless someone is being very broad and loud with the finger pointing.
      - yurishimo 1y ago
        Netflix a wild one to include in that list, imo. What makes you think it's on the same level? If you're making some reference to "cultural importance" I would wager that ABC/CBS in the 90s had just as strong a pull as Netflix does today culturally.
james4k 1y ago
I wish it was a matter of education. Unfortunately that has little to do with the problem.

It floors me that the whole world is pretty content saying “okay cool solar/wind/renewables” and then theres the uneducated states of america who is rejecting all of it

cmrdporcupine 1y ago

Don't worry, the US is actively trying to export that rejection, too, so it won't be alone. See Trump's messed up rant at the UN, and the policies and proposals of his conservative allies here in Canada. Alberta was the the fastest growing renewable producer in Canada due to high winds and long solar days and low cloud cover. The provincial government in the pocket of the oil industry banned renewable developments for months under the excuse that it was "destroying farmland" and then came back months later with a policy that hamstringed future development. to these people, renewables are a threat because they can't be a parasite off it.

boothby 1y ago
The astonishing thing to me is that the production of solar panels is a huge source of mining and manufacturing jobs. Just like heat pumps. If we were serious about the objectives stated by the conservatives, Canada could easily be a world leader with Alberta and Saskatchewan profiting handsomely.
- lazide 1y ago
  Very unlikely to be able to compete with China at scale however - especially since China is already at huge scale.
  - boothby 1y ago
    As always, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. And if we take Conservative talking points in good faith, proctective trade policies buttress the economy in the long term. Right? But I think you're wrong about the extractive side -- Canada has huge rare earth reserves, and while tapping into them does require an investment of time and effort, there's no reason we couldn't compete with China there. And don't even get me started on how unattractive Canadian oil is on the international market. The same "can't compete with China" flavor of argument should apply just as well there if it makes any real sense.
    - lazide 1y ago
      Rare earths aren’t required for cheap solar. Massive silicon crystal growth factories are. And they are a major capital investment. A capital investment China did almost a decade ago at large scale.

treis 1y ago

This is performative. If it were economically viable there'd be panels in parking lots. They're not because the land isn't the expensive part. It's the installation, maintenance, and ancillary equipment that makes solar expensive these days.

eigenspace 1y ago
If you look at it as a way of disincentivizing wasting land on parking lots, it makes a lot of sense
- treis 1y ago
  It's probably not going to do that either. The number of spaces per lot will move to below the limit and more lots will be created to make up the difference. The net will likely be less efficient utilization of lots leading to more overall land usage
toomuchtodo 1y ago
Sometimes we do things that the market has failed to price properly because there is still value not captured in the economics. That is not performance, that is internalizing unpriced externalities. The free market, perfect information, and perfect prices do not exist. France has similar legislation. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/11/18/france-publishes-new-provisions-making-solar-mandatory-on-parking-areas/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/11/18/france-publishes-new-...
cmrdporcupine 1y ago
Yes, because the fossil fuel and energy markets are famously free of political/economic manipulation, and military and ideological intervention .. by both state and private actors. Urban planning, too.

bigstrat2003 1y ago

> the uneducated states of america It's really not cool to insult people, you know. This is in just as poor taste as when smug Americans say "Europoors".

Forbo 1y ago
As an American, we deserve the derision. Please, continue shaming us, maybe some day people will get sick enough of it to try to prove them wrong. That's probably asking too much, though.
- hinkley 1y ago
  As an American who usually gets mistaken for a Canadian while traveling, I know that some of us know they aren’t talking about us, but also that the people who they are talking about aren’t even in the conversation. It’s effectively talking about people behind their back which is not that useful.
  - gnarlouse 1y ago
    When I say "the uneducated states" I'm referring to general trends: - lack of technological fluency - lack of mathematical/scientific fluency - lack of financial fluency - lack of political fluency - lack of critical thinking skills - willful engagement with streaming psy-op platforms: Facebook, Instagram, Netflix, Tiktok
    - hinkley 1y ago
      Agreed. And one of those six maybe applies to me. So I don’t sweat it, unless someone is being very broad and loud with the finger pointing.
    - yurishimo 1y ago
      Netflix a wild one to include in that list, imo. What makes you think it's on the same level? If you're making some reference to "cultural importance" I would wager that ABC/CBS in the 90s had just as strong a pull as Netflix does today culturally.

james4k 1y ago

I wish it was a matter of education. Unfortunately that has little to do with the problem.