4 ms·

If the computer system says you are not a citizen but you produces then clearly one is wrong. It’s no different than a US citizen having an arrest warrant but

by refurb 1y ago

If the computer system says you are not a citizen but you produces then clearly one is wrong. It’s no different than a US citizen having an arrest warrant but then showing the cop a final disposition from the court showing the charges were dismissed. Whats next? It’s certainly not the cop just walking away. You detain the person until the discrepancy can be resolved. Are some innocent people going to be held in custody? Yes, in both cases. But until a better approach can be found (other than just ignoring it), it’s how it works.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
20after4 1y ago
In this case you're detained indefinitely and not likely to see a judge for several months at best. If you ever see the light of day again.
- refurb 1y ago
  Only in extraordinary cases where immigration status can’t be proven. If your document is suspect it’s examined. You can provide additional documents and interviewed about how you obtained your status. If you are a US citizen they can call your county that holds the birth certificate, take affidavits from parents or other family members. I mean the fact we haven’t heard of any US citizens detained for months (as you put it) is a good indication it’s not happening because you know the media would blast that story to the top for weeks.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
exasperaited 1y ago
> But until a better approach can be found (other than just ignoring it), it’s how it works How it works now in Trump 2. Obama, notably, had a better approach, with a faster rate of deportation of illegal migrants, and he did so without absurd threatening intimidating cruelty, or ordering arbitrary kidnappings off the street by violent anonymised paramilitary thugs. There was a really quite high level of voluntary compliance with that system. The only reason this is all happening is that Stephen Miller wants to beat Obama's number: it consumes him that during Trump 1 they didn't get close to the performance of ICE under Obama 2. And he wants it to be showy, threatening, arbitrary, militarised and for it to overpoweringly favour white people. It's legitimately crazy to normalise it by framing it in normal terms like you are doing. There is nothing normal about this, nothing essential, procedure-based or unavoidable. It's an attempt to build a white police state.
- refurb 1y ago
  I’m sorry you’re saying under Obama when the system said someone had a deportation order and the person produced fraudulent documents ICE just threw up their hands and said “oh well!”?
  - exasperaited 1y ago
    Don’t be an idiot. The point is that in Trump 2.0 ICE tactics have changed up from targeted raids (where a few US citizens might have had time to identify themselves as such in the process of an enforcemenr action) to untargeted sweeps where people are being dragged off the street based on their ethnicity and dumped in holding camps in other states by masked goons who are not at all interested in the process because they are literally working to quotas and bonuses. The rate of US citizens being arrested and held for days has increased exponentially and the process no longer cares about fairness; it cares about detention, intimidation and causing fear. This change is obvious, marked to anyone paying attention, and not remotely normal.
    - refurb 1y ago
      …are being dragged off the street based on their ethnicity and dumped in holding camps in other states by masked goons.. Do you have any evidence of this? Keep in mind you started calling me names. The rate of US citizens being arrested and held for days has increased exponentially and the process no longer cares about fairness; Presumably such cases would be all over the news. Could you point me to a few? Not claiming to be US citizens despite no evidence and a lengthy criminal history. I’m willing to change my opinion but it’s going to require facts not rumor and conjecture.
      - exasperaited 1y ago
        Jesus Christ. How can you be this ill-informed about an absolutely unprecedented buildup of violent, thuggish, masked immigration enforcement? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/15/trump-immigration-stephen-miller-influence https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/15/trump-immigr... https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-... https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/ice-agents-penske-rental-truck-173942440.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/ice-agents-penske-rental... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/29/ice-detention-centers-immigration-asylum https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/29/ice-detentio... https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/ice-makes-it-impossible-for-immigrants-in-detention-to-contact-lawyers https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/ice-makes-it-imp... https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-access-to-counsel-deportation/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-access-to-counsel-dep... https://www.propublica.org/article/immigrants-in-detention-centers-are-often-hundreds-of-miles-from-legal-help https://www.propublica.org/article/immigrants-in-detention-c... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/30/ice-hidden-detention-sites https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/30/ice-hidden-d... https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2025/06/09/stephen-millers-order-likely-sparked-immigration-arrests-and-protests/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2025/06/09/steph... https://www.propublica.org/article/ice-officer-shoves-woman-till-eckert https://www.propublica.org/article/ice-officer-shoves-woman-... https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/private-prison-companies-enormous-windfall-who-stands-gain-ice-expands https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/priv... https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/ice-nebraska-immigrants-cornhusker-clink-rcna240323 https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/ice-nebraska-immigr... Now google "Kavanaugh stop". There has already been a Supreme Court case where ICE was challenged over their use of simple ethnicity to scoop up possible immigrants. Kavanaugh says: that's OK. And I am done. It's really not my fault if the news you are consuming is not covering what is happening. When I say don't be an idiot, I mean it in the sense of a useful idiot. Don't be uninformed. Don't be foolish. Don't let them get you to ignore what is happening. (Mods, I appreciate this breaks the "long list of links" rule, probably. But it is an answer to the question from a wide variety of media sources which have documented what amounts to a slow-motion atrocity)

by refurb 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

20after4 1y ago

In this case you're detained indefinitely and not likely to see a judge for several months at best. If you ever see the light of day again.

refurb 1y ago
Only in extraordinary cases where immigration status can’t be proven. If your document is suspect it’s examined. You can provide additional documents and interviewed about how you obtained your status. If you are a US citizen they can call your county that holds the birth certificate, take affidavits from parents or other family members. I mean the fact we haven’t heard of any US citizens detained for months (as you put it) is a good indication it’s not happening because you know the media would blast that story to the top for weeks.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

exasperaited 1y ago

> But until a better approach can be found (other than just ignoring it), it’s how it works How it works now in Trump 2. Obama, notably, had a better approach, with a faster rate of deportation of illegal migrants, and he did so without absurd threatening intimidating cruelty, or ordering arbitrary kidnappings off the street by violent anonymised paramilitary thugs. There was a really quite high level of voluntary compliance with that system. The only reason this is all happening is that Stephen Miller wants to beat Obama's number: it consumes him that during Trump 1 they didn't get close to the performance of ICE under Obama 2. And he wants it to be showy, threatening, arbitrary, militarised and for it to overpoweringly favour white people. It's legitimately crazy to normalise it by framing it in normal terms like you are doing. There is nothing normal about this, nothing essential, procedure-based or unavoidable. It's an attempt to build a white police state.

refurb 1y ago
I’m sorry you’re saying under Obama when the system said someone had a deportation order and the person produced fraudulent documents ICE just threw up their hands and said “oh well!”?
- exasperaited 1y ago
  Don’t be an idiot. The point is that in Trump 2.0 ICE tactics have changed up from targeted raids (where a few US citizens might have had time to identify themselves as such in the process of an enforcemenr action) to untargeted sweeps where people are being dragged off the street based on their ethnicity and dumped in holding camps in other states by masked goons who are not at all interested in the process because they are literally working to quotas and bonuses. The rate of US citizens being arrested and held for days has increased exponentially and the process no longer cares about fairness; it cares about detention, intimidation and causing fear. This change is obvious, marked to anyone paying attention, and not remotely normal.
  - refurb 1y ago
    …are being dragged off the street based on their ethnicity and dumped in holding camps in other states by masked goons.. Do you have any evidence of this? Keep in mind you started calling me names. The rate of US citizens being arrested and held for days has increased exponentially and the process no longer cares about fairness; Presumably such cases would be all over the news. Could you point me to a few? Not claiming to be US citizens despite no evidence and a lengthy criminal history. I’m willing to change my opinion but it’s going to require facts not rumor and conjecture.
    - exasperaited 1y ago
      Jesus Christ. How can you be this ill-informed about an absolutely unprecedented buildup of violent, thuggish, masked immigration enforcement? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/15/trump-immigration-stephen-miller-influence https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/15/trump-immigr... https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-citizens-arrested-detained-against-will https://www.propublica.org/article/immigration-dhs-american-... https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/ice-agents-penske-rental-truck-173942440.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/ice-agents-penske-rental... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/29/ice-detention-centers-immigration-asylum https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/29/ice-detentio... https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/ice-makes-it-impossible-for-immigrants-in-detention-to-contact-lawyers https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/ice-makes-it-imp... https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-access-to-counsel-deportation/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-access-to-counsel-dep... https://www.propublica.org/article/immigrants-in-detention-centers-are-often-hundreds-of-miles-from-legal-help https://www.propublica.org/article/immigrants-in-detention-c... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/30/ice-hidden-detention-sites https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/30/ice-hidden-d... https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2025/06/09/stephen-millers-order-likely-sparked-immigration-arrests-and-protests/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2025/06/09/steph... https://www.propublica.org/article/ice-officer-shoves-woman-till-eckert https://www.propublica.org/article/ice-officer-shoves-woman-... https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/private-prison-companies-enormous-windfall-who-stands-gain-ice-expands https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/priv... https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/ice-nebraska-immigrants-cornhusker-clink-rcna240323 https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/ice-nebraska-immigr... Now google "Kavanaugh stop". There has already been a Supreme Court case where ICE was challenged over their use of simple ethnicity to scoop up possible immigrants. Kavanaugh says: that's OK. And I am done. It's really not my fault if the news you are consuming is not covering what is happening. When I say don't be an idiot, I mean it in the sense of a useful idiot. Don't be uninformed. Don't be foolish. Don't let them get you to ignore what is happening. (Mods, I appreciate this breaks the "long list of links" rule, probably. But it is an answer to the question from a wide variety of media sources which have documented what amounts to a slow-motion atrocity)