5 ms·

This is very very cool, and unlike a lot of other "hobby" OSes actually looks usable as a daily driver if your needs are basic (kids, elderly, older/cheaper har

by sen 11mo ago

This is very very cool, and unlike a lot of other "hobby" OSes actually looks usable as a daily driver if your needs are basic (kids, elderly, older/cheaper hardware, etc). While for nerds computers have become these monstrously powerful things that can do everything under the sun, there's definitely still plenty of people who just want a computer to write down notes, keep a calendar, use the calculator... eg the things home computers were originally made to do.

voidfunc 11mo ago
What youre describing is called iOS on a large iPad. Everyone from 4 year olds to my 77 year old computer illiterate Dad can figure it out. This doesn't look very usable at all by someone who isn't basically a computer nerd.
- honeybadger1 11mo ago
  I agree with you. I see this as a passion project, and I think it's really cool.
- Nextgrid 11mo ago
  True in theory, but in practice due to our economy being based on growth at all costs, iOS doesn’t really fit the bill anymore. Nowadays even iOS will randomly change its UI and send you “notifications” or “suggestions” (modern euphemism for “ads”) to subscribe to Apple TV* or iCloud.
  - deaddodo 11mo ago
    I was forced to buy a new iPhone recently (my 16 was stolen), and had iOS 26 foisted on me. My god, is it bad (for me, I'm sure some like it). The ugly glass UX, the weird floating controls, the always on display, blah blah. It's not innovative at all, it's like they just had to redo everything simply to make it seem "new".
    - Nextgrid 11mo ago
      Always-on display can be disabled but for the rest I agree. It doesn’t really do anything more that my 3rd gen SE but is way more annoying to use (bigger size, no fingerprint reader nor home button).
    - vosper 11mo ago
      > The ugly glass UX, the weird floating controls, the always on display, blah blah I'm on the "some like it" boat, to my surprise. I think the glass effect is eye-catching in a good way, and is much-less of a readability issue than I had expected. I often notice how cool it looks over my rotating background photos. I also love the always-on display because I don't have a watch.
  - naikrovek 11mo ago
    > Nowadays even iOS will randomly change its UI You and I have very different ideas of “random” I think.
    - bathtub365 11mo ago
      Maybe a better definition is “for seemingly no reason”?
      - pixxel 11mo ago
        [dead]
      - weikju 11mo ago
        “Arbitrary” is the word people often should reach for instead of “random”.
    - gouggoug 11mo ago
      what are you trying to say here?
    - Forgeties79 11mo ago
      Why with Tahoe did they get rid of the volume indicator that popped up middle of screen that they’ve had for 20+ years - a critical indicator that the volume controls are even working in the first place - in favor of a tiny set of bars at the top right of my screen in the menu bar where I can barely make them out? It’s also less precise about my volume level now. Why? That sure seemed random. It sure isn’t functional.
      - Razengan 11mo ago
        Because before you many users complained "IT TAKES UP THE WHOLE SCREEN!!!!" and it was a bit annoying to be honest when it obscures a video or something else you're trying to view.
        exe34 11mo ago
  - vasco 11mo ago
    So what is better? I think you're wrong and a tablet with iOS or android is the best form factor for computer illiterate people to get something done. Despite whatever bullshit they added, everything else is worse. But maybe you know of something better?
    - ModernMech 11mo ago
      All you need to understand this is to watch a chimp browsing Chimstagram on an iPhone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTiZqCQsfa8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTiZqCQsfa8 Forget computer illiterate, not even human let alone literate!
      - hulitu 11mo ago
        "When something is made idiot proof, they will just make better idiots." S. Hawking.
- Razengan 11mo ago
  > What youre describing is called iOS on a large iPad. iPad was my gateway drug into Apple when I got it as a gift for my aunt and saw how easy and intuitive it was to use, and also to develop for. Then after Jobs' whip fell from his cold hands they went into the realm of "mystery meat" menus and arcane gestures where swiping from seemingly every different angle of the screen edge does something different. Swipe from the top-right corner to get the Control Center, but swipe from the center-top to see the Notifications?? Yeah not gonna bother training an elder on that. I can't dare get my mom a modern iPhone now where she has to swipe up to unlock: it has be an iPhone SE, the last iPhones with a Home button. I am the filthiest of nerds but I still can't get myself to remember how the heck iPad multitasking works. Apparently they can't either, they changed it again in 26 and now I can't easily get Notes etc. by swiping in from the side when watching a video etc. and I haven't bothered to look up how to do that now. In any case all this only shows that attempting a one-size-fits-all UI can't really go all the way. iPhones/iPad have had a respectable run, they were lucky to have an OS Usability tyrant in charge, but maybe it's time to accept that UIs need an option for Simple vs Expert or something.
  - bombcar 11mo ago
    They removed the side thing in 26 and are bringing it back in 26.1. There’s a complete lack of project leadership and it’s strangely worrying.
    - Razengan 11mo ago
      > There’s a complete lack of project leadership I mean, that's fine, if there is no overarching vision. Just let users CUSTOMIZE the UI the way we want. That's it. That would actually be easier on the UI designers too. Perhaps just a trifle bit complicated for the coders, but they have ＊AI＊ now, right??
      - bombcar 11mo ago
        I fully believe that those inside Apple fighting for customized UI are relegated to hiding them as accessibility options. Apple has never been very fond of customization (one way, Apple's way, or the highway).
- hu3 11mo ago
  You mean the OS that "upgraded" to transparent background, sometimes hard to read text by default? I can't recommend those in good concience ton elders anymore. Kids always figure it out tho.
- hulitu 11mo ago
  > What youre describing is called iOS on a large iPad. Is iOS able to work with files ? Asking for a friend. /s
- bitexploder 11mo ago
  iOS is tremendously more complex than it used to be. Still relatively easy to use but it has definitely lost the simplicity edge.
Levitating 11mo ago
I couldn't tell you how many operating systems fit those requirements, hobby or not.
hollerith 11mo ago
>if your needs are basic (kids, elderly, . . .) Most kids and most elderly need to run a mainstream browser from time to time, and this Visopsys will almost certainly never be able to run a mainstream browser.
- wizzwizz4 11mo ago
  Then we need to change what is meant by "mainstream browser".
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - graemep 11mo ago
    I would love to see that happen, but its not going to. It is the people with basic needs who need to stick to the mainstream stuff because they can get support and it does what they expect. People need bank and other complex websites to work. They want to watch online video. Kids will need educational apps. Also do not make assumptions about elderly people. Not long ago I met a woman (guess in her 70s?) who used to write embedded software for nuclear reactors. I have known many people or similar or greater age who need quite complex stuff. Its the geeks who can manage with the non-mainstream stuff.
    - wizzwizz4 11mo ago
      Web browsers have three purposes: document viewer, remote paperwork machine, and cross-platform application framework. I could throw together a browser fully capable of the first two in a month. (Much less time, if you're okay shipping a prototype, which personally I'm not.) Bank websites are not complex, unless you count the business logic: there's no reason they shouldn't work in Dillo.
      - hollerith 11mo ago
        Yes, almost any competent developer could define a simple document format that would make it easy to write viewers for all the niche OSes, but he cannot persuade content creators to adopt the simple format because most creators (writers) don't see anything wrong with publishing on the web and don't see anything wrong with relying on intermediaries like Wordpress, Medium and Substack to help them publish on the web. Those intermediaries do not want to switch to a simple document format because the user's being dependent on a mainstream browser helps them to track users and to monetize. So 99% of the time, a user ends up needing the full complexity of a mainstream browser just to read a static document.
rvz 11mo ago
> and unlike a lot of other "hobby" OSes actually looks usable as a daily driver if your needs are basic (kids, elderly, older/cheaper hardware, etc). While building a non-Linux OS is very impressive, however this is not useful as a daily driver at all. If the OS doesn't even have basic browsers such as Chrome or Firefox, it can't be remotely used as a daily driver to anyone who isn't a computer enthusiast.
- xuhu 11mo ago
  I wonder if Visopsys, Windows 3.11 and others could work as a daily driver running in qemu, started from a Linux initrd that has just a browser and qemu. "Opening" the browser in Visopsys actually switches to the browser running on the host, and Alt-Tab switches back to Visopsys.
Rygian 11mo ago
From the Visopsys "About" page: > [...] realistically the target audience remains limited to operating system enthusiasts, students, and assorted other sensation seekers

by sen 11mo ago

voidfunc 11mo ago

What youre describing is called iOS on a large iPad. Everyone from 4 year olds to my 77 year old computer illiterate Dad can figure it out. This doesn't look very usable at all by someone who isn't basically a computer nerd.

honeybadger1 11mo ago
I agree with you. I see this as a passion project, and I think it's really cool.
Nextgrid 11mo ago
True in theory, but in practice due to our economy being based on growth at all costs, iOS doesn’t really fit the bill anymore. Nowadays even iOS will randomly change its UI and send you “notifications” or “suggestions” (modern euphemism for “ads”) to subscribe to Apple TV* or iCloud.
- deaddodo 11mo ago
  I was forced to buy a new iPhone recently (my 16 was stolen), and had iOS 26 foisted on me. My god, is it bad (for me, I'm sure some like it). The ugly glass UX, the weird floating controls, the always on display, blah blah. It's not innovative at all, it's like they just had to redo everything simply to make it seem "new".
  - Nextgrid 11mo ago
    Always-on display can be disabled but for the rest I agree. It doesn’t really do anything more that my 3rd gen SE but is way more annoying to use (bigger size, no fingerprint reader nor home button).
  - vosper 11mo ago
    > The ugly glass UX, the weird floating controls, the always on display, blah blah I'm on the "some like it" boat, to my surprise. I think the glass effect is eye-catching in a good way, and is much-less of a readability issue than I had expected. I often notice how cool it looks over my rotating background photos. I also love the always-on display because I don't have a watch.
- naikrovek 11mo ago
  > Nowadays even iOS will randomly change its UI You and I have very different ideas of “random” I think.
  - bathtub365 11mo ago
    Maybe a better definition is “for seemingly no reason”?
    - pixxel 11mo ago
      [dead]
    - weikju 11mo ago
      “Arbitrary” is the word people often should reach for instead of “random”.
  - gouggoug 11mo ago
    what are you trying to say here?
  - Forgeties79 11mo ago
    Why with Tahoe did they get rid of the volume indicator that popped up middle of screen that they’ve had for 20+ years - a critical indicator that the volume controls are even working in the first place - in favor of a tiny set of bars at the top right of my screen in the menu bar where I can barely make them out? It’s also less precise about my volume level now. Why? That sure seemed random. It sure isn’t functional.
    - Razengan 11mo ago
      Because before you many users complained "IT TAKES UP THE WHOLE SCREEN!!!!" and it was a bit annoying to be honest when it obscures a video or something else you're trying to view.
      - exe34 11mo ago
- vasco 11mo ago
  So what is better? I think you're wrong and a tablet with iOS or android is the best form factor for computer illiterate people to get something done. Despite whatever bullshit they added, everything else is worse. But maybe you know of something better?
  - ModernMech 11mo ago
    All you need to understand this is to watch a chimp browsing Chimstagram on an iPhone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTiZqCQsfa8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTiZqCQsfa8 Forget computer illiterate, not even human let alone literate!
    - hulitu 11mo ago
      "When something is made idiot proof, they will just make better idiots." S. Hawking.
Razengan 11mo ago
> What youre describing is called iOS on a large iPad. iPad was my gateway drug into Apple when I got it as a gift for my aunt and saw how easy and intuitive it was to use, and also to develop for. Then after Jobs' whip fell from his cold hands they went into the realm of "mystery meat" menus and arcane gestures where swiping from seemingly every different angle of the screen edge does something different. Swipe from the top-right corner to get the Control Center, but swipe from the center-top to see the Notifications?? Yeah not gonna bother training an elder on that. I can't dare get my mom a modern iPhone now where she has to swipe up to unlock: it has be an iPhone SE, the last iPhones with a Home button. I am the filthiest of nerds but I still can't get myself to remember how the heck iPad multitasking works. Apparently they can't either, they changed it again in 26 and now I can't easily get Notes etc. by swiping in from the side when watching a video etc. and I haven't bothered to look up how to do that now. In any case all this only shows that attempting a one-size-fits-all UI can't really go all the way. iPhones/iPad have had a respectable run, they were lucky to have an OS Usability tyrant in charge, but maybe it's time to accept that UIs need an option for Simple vs Expert or something.
- bombcar 11mo ago
  They removed the side thing in 26 and are bringing it back in 26.1. There’s a complete lack of project leadership and it’s strangely worrying.
  - Razengan 11mo ago
    > There’s a complete lack of project leadership I mean, that's fine, if there is no overarching vision. Just let users CUSTOMIZE the UI the way we want. That's it. That would actually be easier on the UI designers too. Perhaps just a trifle bit complicated for the coders, but they have ＊AI＊ now, right??
    - bombcar 11mo ago
      I fully believe that those inside Apple fighting for customized UI are relegated to hiding them as accessibility options. Apple has never been very fond of customization (one way, Apple's way, or the highway).
hu3 11mo ago
You mean the OS that "upgraded" to transparent background, sometimes hard to read text by default? I can't recommend those in good concience ton elders anymore. Kids always figure it out tho.
hulitu 11mo ago
> What youre describing is called iOS on a large iPad. Is iOS able to work with files ? Asking for a friend. /s
bitexploder 11mo ago
iOS is tremendously more complex than it used to be. Still relatively easy to use but it has definitely lost the simplicity edge.

Levitating 11mo ago

I couldn't tell you how many operating systems fit those requirements, hobby or not.

hollerith 11mo ago

>if your needs are basic (kids, elderly, . . .) Most kids and most elderly need to run a mainstream browser from time to time, and this Visopsys will almost certainly never be able to run a mainstream browser.

wizzwizz4 11mo ago
Then we need to change what is meant by "mainstream browser".
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- graemep 11mo ago
  I would love to see that happen, but its not going to. It is the people with basic needs who need to stick to the mainstream stuff because they can get support and it does what they expect. People need bank and other complex websites to work. They want to watch online video. Kids will need educational apps. Also do not make assumptions about elderly people. Not long ago I met a woman (guess in her 70s?) who used to write embedded software for nuclear reactors. I have known many people or similar or greater age who need quite complex stuff. Its the geeks who can manage with the non-mainstream stuff.
  - wizzwizz4 11mo ago
    Web browsers have three purposes: document viewer, remote paperwork machine, and cross-platform application framework. I could throw together a browser fully capable of the first two in a month. (Much less time, if you're okay shipping a prototype, which personally I'm not.) Bank websites are not complex, unless you count the business logic: there's no reason they shouldn't work in Dillo.
    - hollerith 11mo ago
      Yes, almost any competent developer could define a simple document format that would make it easy to write viewers for all the niche OSes, but he cannot persuade content creators to adopt the simple format because most creators (writers) don't see anything wrong with publishing on the web and don't see anything wrong with relying on intermediaries like Wordpress, Medium and Substack to help them publish on the web. Those intermediaries do not want to switch to a simple document format because the user's being dependent on a mainstream browser helps them to track users and to monetize. So 99% of the time, a user ends up needing the full complexity of a mainstream browser just to read a static document.

rvz 11mo ago

> and unlike a lot of other "hobby" OSes actually looks usable as a daily driver if your needs are basic (kids, elderly, older/cheaper hardware, etc). While building a non-Linux OS is very impressive, however this is not useful as a daily driver at all. If the OS doesn't even have basic browsers such as Chrome or Firefox, it can't be remotely used as a daily driver to anyone who isn't a computer enthusiast.

xuhu 11mo ago
I wonder if Visopsys, Windows 3.11 and others could work as a daily driver running in qemu, started from a Linux initrd that has just a browser and qemu. "Opening" the browser in Visopsys actually switches to the browser running on the host, and Alt-Tab switches back to Visopsys.

Rygian 11mo ago

From the Visopsys "About" page: > [...] realistically the target audience remains limited to operating system enthusiasts, students, and assorted other sensation seekers