4 ms·

I'm so genuinely confused by all this. It seems that Altman has a lot of detractors here, and I'm not sure why (my fault for not keeping up I guess). But a comp

by overvale 11mo ago

I'm so genuinely confused by all this. It seems that Altman has a lot of detractors here, and I'm not sure why (my fault for not keeping up I guess). But a company that wants to spend trillions of dollars on AGI infrastructure and hopes to re-shape the entire global economy surely needs to plow a staggering amount of money into its operations and not into a non-profit. I get that there is controversy over redirecting profits of a very successful business from a non-profit entity (which would be great) to private parties, but... that was always going to happen right? Am I just too cynical? What am I missing? I'm genuinely curious. Also, the largest theft in human history surely has to be the East India Company extracting something like 50 trillion from India over 200 years, right?

skinnymuch 11mo ago
Yes. Colonialism is certainly going to be worse. One AI company going from non profit to whatever it is now is not close.
pfortuny 11mo ago
[deleted]: I need to be calm before posting.
- dang 11mo ago
  If only we all would!
kamikazeturtles 11mo ago
> Also, the largest theft in human history surely has to be the East India Company extracting something like 50 trillion from India over 200 years, right? I never understood these sorts of statements. I feel historical events maybe after the Victorian age can claim to be theft, otherwise it's just empires and conquest. Adjusted for inflation, wouldn't Alexander the Great's plundering of Persia, which at the time comprised 40% of the world's population, be the greatest theft in human history, using your logic?
- zozbot234 11mo ago
  The world population was a lot lower back then, and India is quite large to begin with.
- IncreasePosts 11mo ago
  If we're going by theft as a percent of world GDP, then surely the biggest theft was when Zog stole Ug's best smashing rock
  - ninetyninenine 11mo ago
    The measurement should be theft per capita or how many people did Sam Altman take from? Divide total GDP by the population and turn it into one unit. Ug's best smashing rock would be 1.
  - paulcole 11mo ago
    This was my favorite Far Side
  - Terr_ 11mo ago
    That's nothin', my great^N ancestor was part of a horde that conquered the entire planet in a Grey-Goo apocalypse. Sure, it's divided up amongst all the descendants now, but it was quite a heist.
  - whimsicalism 11mo ago
    when Zog stole Ug’s intellectual property rights in the starting of fire.
- overvale 11mo ago
  Yeah, you're right, it's not a fair comparison.
- tbrownaw 11mo ago
  > I feel historical events maybe after the Victorian age can claim to be theft, otherwise it's just empires and conquest. One criterion that might work is whether there's some greater power around that says it's theft, and is able/willing to enforce that in some manner. So for example a successful conquest isn't theft, but a failed conquest is probably attempted theft (and vandalism of course).
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
BrenBarn 11mo ago
Are you saying that because you're cynical you thought Altman would always go for the biggest money grab possible, and so you won't criticize him on that basis? I'm cynical enough to think a lot of people will always go for the biggest money grab possible, but I still will criticize them for doing so.
- overvale 11mo ago
  No, I'm saying I'm cynical because I assume that whenever this much money is involved there's no way events unfold in a fair, ethical, utopian way. It always turns into a knife fight in the mud.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - jgalt212 11mo ago
    But they should unfold in a legal way. And I'm not convinced that they have.
  - BrenBarn 11mo ago
    Okay, but what I'm asking about is this part of your previous comment: > It seems that Altman has a lot of detractors here, and I'm not sure why Why are you confused/surprised that Altman has detractors?
    - overvale 11mo ago
      I should have structured my sentences a little better. I'm not confused about why he has detractors, I'm confused as to why people thought it would go any other way with this munch money on the line. But, you're right, that's no reason to refrain from criticizing them for it.
  - horisbrisby 11mo ago
    It seems a bit strange to me that we as a society have agreed to arrest everyone in the knife fight in the mud despite very little risk of innocent parties wandering into the mud to be hurt, but if you put on a dress shirt..
vessenes 11mo ago
The article tracks some good historical quotes. But it doesn’t seem to try and steel man the other side, that is, what’s oAI worth without its workers and an attached for profit company? To the extent the answer is ‘much lower’ then he could have spent a whole blog post congratulating California ag and Sam for landing the single largest new public charity in real dollar terms maybe ever. If the point is “it sticks in my craw that the team won’t keep working how they used to plan on working even when the team has already left” then, fair enough. But I disagree with theft as an angle; there are too many counter factuals to think through before you should make a strong case it’s theft. Put another way - I think the writer hates Sam and so we get this. I’m guessing we will not be reading an article where Ilya leaving and starting a C corp with no charitable component is called theft.

skinnymuch 11mo ago

Yes. Colonialism is certainly going to be worse. One AI company going from non profit to whatever it is now is not close.

pfortuny 11mo ago

[deleted]: I need to be calm before posting.

dang 11mo ago
If only we all would!

kamikazeturtles 11mo ago

> Also, the largest theft in human history surely has to be the East India Company extracting something like 50 trillion from India over 200 years, right? I never understood these sorts of statements. I feel historical events maybe after the Victorian age can claim to be theft, otherwise it's just empires and conquest. Adjusted for inflation, wouldn't Alexander the Great's plundering of Persia, which at the time comprised 40% of the world's population, be the greatest theft in human history, using your logic?

zozbot234 11mo ago
The world population was a lot lower back then, and India is quite large to begin with.
IncreasePosts 11mo ago
If we're going by theft as a percent of world GDP, then surely the biggest theft was when Zog stole Ug's best smashing rock
- ninetyninenine 11mo ago
  The measurement should be theft per capita or how many people did Sam Altman take from? Divide total GDP by the population and turn it into one unit. Ug's best smashing rock would be 1.
- paulcole 11mo ago
  This was my favorite Far Side
- Terr_ 11mo ago
  That's nothin', my great^N ancestor was part of a horde that conquered the entire planet in a Grey-Goo apocalypse. Sure, it's divided up amongst all the descendants now, but it was quite a heist.
- whimsicalism 11mo ago
  when Zog stole Ug’s intellectual property rights in the starting of fire.
overvale 11mo ago
Yeah, you're right, it's not a fair comparison.
tbrownaw 11mo ago
> I feel historical events maybe after the Victorian age can claim to be theft, otherwise it's just empires and conquest. One criterion that might work is whether there's some greater power around that says it's theft, and is able/willing to enforce that in some manner. So for example a successful conquest isn't theft, but a failed conquest is probably attempted theft (and vandalism of course).

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

BrenBarn 11mo ago

Are you saying that because you're cynical you thought Altman would always go for the biggest money grab possible, and so you won't criticize him on that basis? I'm cynical enough to think a lot of people will always go for the biggest money grab possible, but I still will criticize them for doing so.

overvale 11mo ago
No, I'm saying I'm cynical because I assume that whenever this much money is involved there's no way events unfold in a fair, ethical, utopian way. It always turns into a knife fight in the mud.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- jgalt212 11mo ago
  But they should unfold in a legal way. And I'm not convinced that they have.
- BrenBarn 11mo ago
  Okay, but what I'm asking about is this part of your previous comment: > It seems that Altman has a lot of detractors here, and I'm not sure why Why are you confused/surprised that Altman has detractors?
  - overvale 11mo ago
    I should have structured my sentences a little better. I'm not confused about why he has detractors, I'm confused as to why people thought it would go any other way with this munch money on the line. But, you're right, that's no reason to refrain from criticizing them for it.
- horisbrisby 11mo ago
  It seems a bit strange to me that we as a society have agreed to arrest everyone in the knife fight in the mud despite very little risk of innocent parties wandering into the mud to be hurt, but if you put on a dress shirt..

vessenes 11mo ago

The article tracks some good historical quotes. But it doesn’t seem to try and steel man the other side, that is, what’s oAI worth without its workers and an attached for profit company? To the extent the answer is ‘much lower’ then he could have spent a whole blog post congratulating California ag and Sam for landing the single largest new public charity in real dollar terms maybe ever. If the point is “it sticks in my craw that the team won’t keep working how they used to plan on working even when the team has already left” then, fair enough. But I disagree with theft as an angle; there are too many counter factuals to think through before you should make a strong case it’s theft. Put another way - I think the writer hates Sam and so we get this. I’m guessing we will not be reading an article where Ilya leaving and starting a C corp with no charitable component is called theft.