4 ms·

Your proposal flies in the face of what people actually want. Everyone wants a detached home with a yard. No one wants to live in a condo, an oct or a quad, or

Your proposal flies in the face of what people actually want. Everyone wants a detached home with a yard. No one wants to live in a condo, an oct or a quad, or even a row house, as a permanent life-long dream. Not the people who currently own detached homes and not the people looking to buy homes. Everyone sees high-density housing as a stepping stone towards detached home ownership. Detached home ownership is the dream, the more land it comes with, the better.

epistasis 1y ago
If people actually wanted that, you wouldn't have to ban denser living. Our choices are not the result of a free market, but one highly constrained by land use restrictions. This is seen very clearly in housing prices. Dense living is hugely undersupplied, and therefore very expensive.
mjamesaustin 1y ago
This is some suburban delusion. Do you think the people who own multimillion dollar condos in NYC would rather live in a single family home? What's stopping them? I want to be in the heart of a bustling city where I can walk to everything and do something different every night. That's not possible in suburbia.
- greenchair 1y ago
  Has a lot to do with time of life too. I had similar feelings in 20s while single.
- tzs 1y ago
  > Do you think the people who own multimillion dollar condos in NYC would rather live in a single family home? What's stopping them? They'd probably rather live in a single family home in NYC. They have to choose between contradictory desires: single family home over condo, but NYC over suburbs or rural.
nurumaik 1y ago
I want to live in a condo rather than detached home. Private home is too much of a hassle to maintain properly and also less likely to have many different shops/restaurants within 5 min walk
ta9000 1y ago
Most people, even in the US, don’t live in detached homes with a yard. The amount of sprawl required to accomplish that “dream” of everyone living in a detached home with a huge yard would be a disaster for the environment and commutes.
- rufus_foreman 1y ago
  In 2023, 54% of the housing units in the US were single family detached, https://eyeonhousing.org/2024/10/owner-occupied-single-family-housing-units-across-congressional-districts/ https://eyeonhousing.org/2024/10/owner-occupied-single-famil.... I guess some of those could not have yards, but that is pretty rare to not have any sort of yard in a single family detached home. 2/3 of home buyers have single family detached as their preferred housing, so more people want to live in that type of housing than currently do so.
  - dboreham 1y ago
    In the area with which I'm familiar it's a zoning/planning requirement to dedicate some proportion of lot area to yard. I forget the details -- it's been a while since I dug into this. I think that's also why mother in law units became popular in some jurisdictions: a workaround for yard area requirements since it piggy backs on the existing home yard arrangement.
  - glitchc 1y ago
    Hear hear! Thank you. People are downvoting like mad because they want to drive their own agendas and are afraid of reality, except reality stands undefeated. Everyone wants a piece they call their own. Fighting against it is fighting against basic human nature. Give up your climate agenda. It's dead. Even Bill Gates said it.
    - zahlman 1y ago
      No. You are being downvoted because observable facts support the opposite of your claims; and because you have apparently ignored many people who pointed out several things wrong with your claim — in a variety of ways — to cherry-pick someone who agrees with you; and because you propose to generalize the feelings of other people who are speaking up that they don't feel the way you imagine that "everyone" does; and because you are casting aspersions on others.
gausswho 1y ago
OK. Since that's what people actually want, the market should work without single-family-home zoning laws and minimum parking requirements. Glad to see different people want different things in life.
tuveson 1y ago
> Detached home ownership is the dream, the more land it comes with, the better. Not everyone wants to live in the country or the suburbs. I wouldn't live there if you paid me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93oFXRedHy0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93oFXRedHy0
- analog8374 1y ago
  As a country dweller I feel the same about the city. The city is an ugly, noisy, filthy hive of madness.
  - cindyllm 1y ago
    [dead]
  - casey2 1y ago
    Mainly due to car industry friendly legislation and entitled suburbanites
  - epistasis 1y ago
    How funny, having grown up in a rural area, I'd never live one again due to the madness, filth, and ugliness! I hope we both have ample choices for the ways we choose to live. Noise in cities is mostly from cars, as is the dirt and death and destruction. Which is why I advocate so hard for allowing low car lifestyles and building, something that is largely banned in the US.
    - antisthenes 1y ago
      > How funny, having grown up in a rural area, I'd never live one again due to the madness, filth, and ugliness! The only reason there would be madness, filth and ugliness in a rural area is if you left it there, because you are the only one living on your property. Obviously, you have to sometimes go out into a hub of activity to get groceries or whatnot, but the onus is on you to provide evidence that those hubs are epicenters of madness and filth in a rural area, but not the urban area. Your argument makes 0 sense without any evidence.
kfarr 1y ago
> Everyone wants a detached home with a yard. No one wants to live in a condo, an oct or a quad, or even a row house, as a permanent life-long dream. This is easily disproven by the state of the real estate market and relative value of said urban condos to suburban sfh
crazygringo 1y ago
Your comment would be a lot better if you didn't use words like "everyone" and "no one". You'd be correct if you referred to some people, but acknowledged that for plenty of people, a detached home with a yard is the last thing they want. Lawn care and home maintenance, no thanks. Let me just pay a fee for my share of building maintenance, please.
alistairSH 1y ago
People want the single family, but they don’t want to pay for the externalities that come with sprawl. Price in the full cost of that sprawl and it becomes less desirable.
theshackleford 1y ago
I in fact want none of the things you claim. I have zero interest in living in the burbs, in maintaining a yard. It is in fact my long term dream to live in the city in my wonderful apartment until I cark it. How bizarre you think you can talk for literally everyone in existence.
zahlman 1y ago
> Everyone wants... Absolutely untrue. My own desires are quite the opposite of what you describe. Besides which, tiny downtown places can often be more expensive than considerably larger ones in the suburbs.
rsynnott 1y ago
… Eh, I think maybe you’re taking what _you_ want and assuming it is what everyone wants? Personally I couldn’t face living in the middle of nowhere.

epistasis 1y ago

If people actually wanted that, you wouldn't have to ban denser living. Our choices are not the result of a free market, but one highly constrained by land use restrictions. This is seen very clearly in housing prices. Dense living is hugely undersupplied, and therefore very expensive.

mjamesaustin 1y ago

This is some suburban delusion. Do you think the people who own multimillion dollar condos in NYC would rather live in a single family home? What's stopping them? I want to be in the heart of a bustling city where I can walk to everything and do something different every night. That's not possible in suburbia.

greenchair 1y ago
Has a lot to do with time of life too. I had similar feelings in 20s while single.
tzs 1y ago
> Do you think the people who own multimillion dollar condos in NYC would rather live in a single family home? What's stopping them? They'd probably rather live in a single family home in NYC. They have to choose between contradictory desires: single family home over condo, but NYC over suburbs or rural.

nurumaik 1y ago

I want to live in a condo rather than detached home. Private home is too much of a hassle to maintain properly and also less likely to have many different shops/restaurants within 5 min walk

ta9000 1y ago

Most people, even in the US, don’t live in detached homes with a yard. The amount of sprawl required to accomplish that “dream” of everyone living in a detached home with a huge yard would be a disaster for the environment and commutes.

rufus_foreman 1y ago
In 2023, 54% of the housing units in the US were single family detached, https://eyeonhousing.org/2024/10/owner-occupied-single-family-housing-units-across-congressional-districts/ https://eyeonhousing.org/2024/10/owner-occupied-single-famil.... I guess some of those could not have yards, but that is pretty rare to not have any sort of yard in a single family detached home. 2/3 of home buyers have single family detached as their preferred housing, so more people want to live in that type of housing than currently do so.
- dboreham 1y ago
  In the area with which I'm familiar it's a zoning/planning requirement to dedicate some proportion of lot area to yard. I forget the details -- it's been a while since I dug into this. I think that's also why mother in law units became popular in some jurisdictions: a workaround for yard area requirements since it piggy backs on the existing home yard arrangement.
- glitchc 1y ago
  Hear hear! Thank you. People are downvoting like mad because they want to drive their own agendas and are afraid of reality, except reality stands undefeated. Everyone wants a piece they call their own. Fighting against it is fighting against basic human nature. Give up your climate agenda. It's dead. Even Bill Gates said it.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    No. You are being downvoted because observable facts support the opposite of your claims; and because you have apparently ignored many people who pointed out several things wrong with your claim — in a variety of ways — to cherry-pick someone who agrees with you; and because you propose to generalize the feelings of other people who are speaking up that they don't feel the way you imagine that "everyone" does; and because you are casting aspersions on others.

gausswho 1y ago

OK. Since that's what people actually want, the market should work without single-family-home zoning laws and minimum parking requirements. Glad to see different people want different things in life.

tuveson 1y ago

> Detached home ownership is the dream, the more land it comes with, the better. Not everyone wants to live in the country or the suburbs. I wouldn't live there if you paid me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93oFXRedHy0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93oFXRedHy0

analog8374 1y ago
As a country dweller I feel the same about the city. The city is an ugly, noisy, filthy hive of madness.
- cindyllm 1y ago
  [dead]
- casey2 1y ago
  Mainly due to car industry friendly legislation and entitled suburbanites
- epistasis 1y ago
  How funny, having grown up in a rural area, I'd never live one again due to the madness, filth, and ugliness! I hope we both have ample choices for the ways we choose to live. Noise in cities is mostly from cars, as is the dirt and death and destruction. Which is why I advocate so hard for allowing low car lifestyles and building, something that is largely banned in the US.
  - antisthenes 1y ago
    > How funny, having grown up in a rural area, I'd never live one again due to the madness, filth, and ugliness! The only reason there would be madness, filth and ugliness in a rural area is if you left it there, because you are the only one living on your property. Obviously, you have to sometimes go out into a hub of activity to get groceries or whatnot, but the onus is on you to provide evidence that those hubs are epicenters of madness and filth in a rural area, but not the urban area. Your argument makes 0 sense without any evidence.

kfarr 1y ago

> Everyone wants a detached home with a yard. No one wants to live in a condo, an oct or a quad, or even a row house, as a permanent life-long dream. This is easily disproven by the state of the real estate market and relative value of said urban condos to suburban sfh

crazygringo 1y ago

Your comment would be a lot better if you didn't use words like "everyone" and "no one". You'd be correct if you referred to some people, but acknowledged that for plenty of people, a detached home with a yard is the last thing they want. Lawn care and home maintenance, no thanks. Let me just pay a fee for my share of building maintenance, please.

alistairSH 1y ago

People want the single family, but they don’t want to pay for the externalities that come with sprawl. Price in the full cost of that sprawl and it becomes less desirable.

theshackleford 1y ago

I in fact want none of the things you claim. I have zero interest in living in the burbs, in maintaining a yard. It is in fact my long term dream to live in the city in my wonderful apartment until I cark it. How bizarre you think you can talk for literally everyone in existence.

zahlman 1y ago

> Everyone wants... Absolutely untrue. My own desires are quite the opposite of what you describe. Besides which, tiny downtown places can often be more expensive than considerably larger ones in the suburbs.

rsynnott 1y ago

… Eh, I think maybe you’re taking what _you_ want and assuming it is what everyone wants? Personally I couldn’t face living in the middle of nowhere.