4 ms·

> I hope we can get the EU to fund a truly open Android Fork. How are things in the EU on whether it's legal to buy a SIM card without showing ID?

jraph 1y ago
I'm confused, how are those two things related?
- peterhadlaw 1y ago
  Nanny state
  - vik0 1y ago
    More like surveillance state
    - ulfw 1y ago
      Which states aren't? And for the love of god do not write US now
- semolino 1y ago
  The commenter you replied to was implying that the EU does not respect the privacy/freedom of mobile device users.
  - jraph 1y ago
    Okay, thanks. I was confused bexause anonymity against the state is hardly the only, or even a main point of android forks. Privacy usually is, but against big tech typically.
remix2000 1y ago
It is neither illegal nor hard to obtain such a prepaid SIM card.
- kube-system 1y ago
  That very much depends on the country, many require ID.
  - Kwpolska 1y ago
    The ID presented at time of purchase does not have to be the ID of the actual user of the card. Your local drunkard will be happy to get $10 to buy a SIM card for you. Or you could visit eBay (or local equivalent) and get a valid SIM card without leaving your house.
    - kube-system 1y ago
      The suggestion above wasn’t a statement of practicality but rather of EU motivations. Maybe you can also find a drunkard to fork Android for you.
    - noosphr 1y ago
      >While it is technically feasible, it is not a good idea to try and find a technical solution to a people/organisation problem.
    - logifail 1y ago
      > The ID presented at time of purchase does not have to be the ID of the actual user of the card In some EU member states this might be fine, but definitely not all. > Your local drunkard will be happy to get $10 to buy a SIM card for you. Buying a SIM card was always the easy bit. Getting it activated may not be, it depends on which country you're in. https://www.telekom.de/prepaid-aktivierung/en/start https://www.telekom.de/prepaid-aktivierung/en/start "For the Selfie-Ident you identify yourself with your identity card, passport or residence permit. (Selfie-Ident is currently possible worldwide with the German ID card, residence permit and passport. Alternatively, you can use Video-Ident and identify yourself in a video call with an employee.) Important: Temporary identification documents are not supported due to internal check. You need a tablet or smartphone with a camera and an internet connection."
asimops 1y ago
A secure OS is a prerequisite for secure digital services. We can agree on that, right? The task, therefore, is to convince enough politicians to establish an independent unit that can address this issue without direct political influence. Fund the unit with enough money so that it can take care of the cybersecurity and sovereignty of all citizens. A side effect of this would hopefully be that these politicians would then be digitally literate enough to recognize nonsense such as chat control as such and reject it outright. I hope that most politicians would not really want such omnipotent surveillance tools if they could truly grasp their scope.
- IlikeKitties 1y ago
  I must sadly inform everyone here that the EU is pozzed beyond recovery in regards to Google. The reference implementation for the euid project is only available for android and ios and uses the play integrity api which makes usage of it on non google-certified devices impossible. https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-app-android-wallet-ui/issues/287 https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-app-andro...
- TeMPOraL 1y ago
  > A secure OS is a prerequisite for secure digital services. We can agree on that, right? Secure for who, and from whom? Remote Attestation and Developer Verification both make Android OS and platform more secure against malicious actors that would want to defeat the guarantees the platform gives, guarantees that enable secure digital services. Yes, this includes protecting the banking services and DRM media services and advertising platforms from malicious actors like you and me, who pose a real threat to the revenues of the aforementioned players, by: - Expecting banking to do security right on their own side, instead of outsourcing it to mobile platform and society at large (like with "identity theft" trick); - Enjoying entertainment and education in ways the vendor or IP owner does not like or can't be arsed to support, and thus not spending extra on the inferior ways that are supported; - Not looking at the ads. Same is with Chat Control. Chat Control improves security of the society against threats such as sexual predators who want to hurt children, or citizens who disapprove of how the current ruling class is governing the people. To effectively provide that security, Chat Control in turn relies on a secure OS and platform providing secure digital services - in particular, secure against those malicious actors that would want to circumvent Chat Control protections. Is the larger picture clear now? Security technologies are not inherently good, they're morally ambivalent. They're "dual-use". It's important to consider their deployment on a case-by-case basis, always asking who is being secured, and what are the actual threats they're being secured from.
sigio 1y ago
In many EU countries you can walk into many a supermarket or phone-store and just buy a simcard with cash without questions asked.
WhyNotHugo 1y ago
> How are things in the EU on whether it's legal to buy a SIM card without showing ID? It varies per country. In some you can just buy one (or more) SIM cards at a supermarket without any ID.
supermatt 1y ago
There is no such requirement in the EU - it is entirely up to the individual country.

jraph 1y ago

I'm confused, how are those two things related?

peterhadlaw 1y ago
Nanny state
- vik0 1y ago
  More like surveillance state
  - ulfw 1y ago
    Which states aren't? And for the love of god do not write US now
semolino 1y ago
The commenter you replied to was implying that the EU does not respect the privacy/freedom of mobile device users.
- jraph 1y ago
  Okay, thanks. I was confused bexause anonymity against the state is hardly the only, or even a main point of android forks. Privacy usually is, but against big tech typically.

remix2000 1y ago

It is neither illegal nor hard to obtain such a prepaid SIM card.

kube-system 1y ago
That very much depends on the country, many require ID.
- Kwpolska 1y ago
  The ID presented at time of purchase does not have to be the ID of the actual user of the card. Your local drunkard will be happy to get $10 to buy a SIM card for you. Or you could visit eBay (or local equivalent) and get a valid SIM card without leaving your house.
  - kube-system 1y ago
    The suggestion above wasn’t a statement of practicality but rather of EU motivations. Maybe you can also find a drunkard to fork Android for you.
  - noosphr 1y ago
    >While it is technically feasible, it is not a good idea to try and find a technical solution to a people/organisation problem.
  - logifail 1y ago
    > The ID presented at time of purchase does not have to be the ID of the actual user of the card In some EU member states this might be fine, but definitely not all. > Your local drunkard will be happy to get $10 to buy a SIM card for you. Buying a SIM card was always the easy bit. Getting it activated may not be, it depends on which country you're in. https://www.telekom.de/prepaid-aktivierung/en/start https://www.telekom.de/prepaid-aktivierung/en/start "For the Selfie-Ident you identify yourself with your identity card, passport or residence permit. (Selfie-Ident is currently possible worldwide with the German ID card, residence permit and passport. Alternatively, you can use Video-Ident and identify yourself in a video call with an employee.) Important: Temporary identification documents are not supported due to internal check. You need a tablet or smartphone with a camera and an internet connection."

asimops 1y ago

A secure OS is a prerequisite for secure digital services. We can agree on that, right? The task, therefore, is to convince enough politicians to establish an independent unit that can address this issue without direct political influence. Fund the unit with enough money so that it can take care of the cybersecurity and sovereignty of all citizens. A side effect of this would hopefully be that these politicians would then be digitally literate enough to recognize nonsense such as chat control as such and reject it outright. I hope that most politicians would not really want such omnipotent surveillance tools if they could truly grasp their scope.

IlikeKitties 1y ago
I must sadly inform everyone here that the EU is pozzed beyond recovery in regards to Google. The reference implementation for the euid project is only available for android and ios and uses the play integrity api which makes usage of it on non google-certified devices impossible. https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-app-android-wallet-ui/issues/287 https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-app-andro...
TeMPOraL 1y ago
> A secure OS is a prerequisite for secure digital services. We can agree on that, right? Secure for who, and from whom? Remote Attestation and Developer Verification both make Android OS and platform more secure against malicious actors that would want to defeat the guarantees the platform gives, guarantees that enable secure digital services. Yes, this includes protecting the banking services and DRM media services and advertising platforms from malicious actors like you and me, who pose a real threat to the revenues of the aforementioned players, by: - Expecting banking to do security right on their own side, instead of outsourcing it to mobile platform and society at large (like with "identity theft" trick); - Enjoying entertainment and education in ways the vendor or IP owner does not like or can't be arsed to support, and thus not spending extra on the inferior ways that are supported; - Not looking at the ads. Same is with Chat Control. Chat Control improves security of the society against threats such as sexual predators who want to hurt children, or citizens who disapprove of how the current ruling class is governing the people. To effectively provide that security, Chat Control in turn relies on a secure OS and platform providing secure digital services - in particular, secure against those malicious actors that would want to circumvent Chat Control protections. Is the larger picture clear now? Security technologies are not inherently good, they're morally ambivalent. They're "dual-use". It's important to consider their deployment on a case-by-case basis, always asking who is being secured, and what are the actual threats they're being secured from.

sigio 1y ago

In many EU countries you can walk into many a supermarket or phone-store and just buy a simcard with cash without questions asked.

WhyNotHugo 1y ago

> How are things in the EU on whether it's legal to buy a SIM card without showing ID? It varies per country. In some you can just buy one (or more) SIM cards at a supermarket without any ID.

supermatt 1y ago

There is no such requirement in the EU - it is entirely up to the individual country.