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> “We are committed to operating like the world’s largest startup, and … that means removing layers.” I learned a long time ago that behaving like a startup is

by amyjess 11mo ago

> “We are committed to operating like the world’s largest startup, and … that means removing layers.” I learned a long time ago that behaving like a startup is not a good thing, and I've specifically oriented my career towards working at companies that don't even want to pretend to imitate startup culture. I'm very happy in enterprise-land.

somanyphotons 11mo ago
What are the aspects that you're looking for from enterprise-land
- thih9 11mo ago
  Sane workload, work hours and vacation days for a start. It’s 2025 and I still see “unlimited PTO” in many places.
  - lotsofpulp 11mo ago
    That comes with high profit margin and moat (for your specific labor, not just the business's moat). If you don't have leverage, you won't get those things regardless of enterprise or small business.
    - bodiekane 11mo ago
      And yet, millions of people work 40 hour weeks and take a couple vacations per year while working in razor-thin margin industries like grocery stores and low margin restaurants, manufacturing, agriculture, construction, retail, trucking and services ranging from hair stylists to accounting. Sane working hours and vacation time should be taken as a given in the modern economy. Unusually long work hours should be reserved for unusually highly paid professions like investment banking and surgeons.
      - lotsofpulp 11mo ago
        In the US, that might be true if you don't have kids, and/or don't aim to buy a home in a major metro. Otherwise, a lot of those people are going to be working multiple jobs, or relying on a higher earning spouse. Especially retail and restaurant workers. Most won't even get subsidized health insurance from their employer, and if they do, they are not going to be able to afford the deductibles with their income from one 40 hour per week job.
    - thih9 11mo ago
      Sure but overtime in enterprise is paid. In a startup you might get some worthless equity. Also, in startups these things still happen more often, the culture normalizes unpaid overtime, unused PTO, etc. E.g.: > While overtime is a reality in both startups and large corporations, the difference lies in the motivation behind it. In startups, work goes beyond traditional hours, not out of obligation, but from a genuine passion and commitment to achieving shared goals. source: https://www.sdsolutions.tech/post/what-is-a-startup-culture https://www.sdsolutions.tech/post/what-is-a-startup-culture
      - dpark 11mo ago
        > overtime in enterprise is paid. Not in the US. Most enterprise software engineers are salaried and do not receive overtime pay.
  - catlover76 11mo ago
    [dead]
mingus88 11mo ago
At that scale, it’s the worst of both worlds. You set the expectation that you can deliver at the pace of a lean startup, but every step of the way you are slowed down by a process or internal dependency that is operating like a fortune 100 company. Large companies should just fund startups and acquire them when the product has shipped than try to create a culture where teams are expected to operate a speedboat that is towed by an oceanliner.
- B-Con 11mo ago
  > Large companies should just fund startups and acquire them when the product has shipped I mean, that's basically what big tech has been doing for the left 15 years., not then people get upset that "Foo Corp doesn't innovate, it only acquires".
josefritzishere 11mo ago
I have worked at both and... well they're just very different. It's mostly trade offs. What specifically for y'all?
- LargeWu 11mo ago
  There's dysfunction in both, it's just different types of dysfunction.
  - ghaff 11mo ago
    As companies grow (and it's not binary), a lot of things (have to) change which may be to your taste--or may not be.
supportengineer 11mo ago
It's hard to beat the authority and responsibility one personally has at a startup.
- uvaursi 11mo ago
  Do we have any write ups or post mortems from WhatsApp employees prior to the acquisition and the massive buy out? I want to (artificially perhaps) peg my projects to a smaller cohort of employees if it means the stress to them is worth it if they have the autonomy to ship stuff on their own accord, for a general feeling of having a successful and useful career.
- ryandvm 11mo ago
  Lol. You'll have exactly 1/1,500,000 the authority and responsibility. They don't mean empowering their workforce. "We want to act more like a startup" is code for we want less accountability for bad decisions.
whazor 11mo ago
I joined an actual startup and am also very happy. We are just focused on making the product work. Not on promo docs or headcount fighting.
legitster 11mo ago
Kinda. The sweet spot is working at a "mid-cap" company. The company is growing and you have resources and freedom to do things, but not so big that you are in a bureaucratic nightmare. I tell people that the best size of company to work at is one that's just barely big enough to have an HR department.
cosmicgadget 11mo ago
It is especially not a good thing when you need to provide reliable services, coordinate across multiple business units, retain talent not chasing an equity payday, and protect your moat. Full disclosure: I do not have an MBA.
ryandvm 11mo ago
100% Finding out that one of the world's largest economic forces aspires to burn out their workforce and spend more time shooting from the hip is depressing.

by amyjess 11mo ago

somanyphotons 11mo ago

What are the aspects that you're looking for from enterprise-land

thih9 11mo ago
Sane workload, work hours and vacation days for a start. It’s 2025 and I still see “unlimited PTO” in many places.
- lotsofpulp 11mo ago
  That comes with high profit margin and moat (for your specific labor, not just the business's moat). If you don't have leverage, you won't get those things regardless of enterprise or small business.
  - bodiekane 11mo ago
    And yet, millions of people work 40 hour weeks and take a couple vacations per year while working in razor-thin margin industries like grocery stores and low margin restaurants, manufacturing, agriculture, construction, retail, trucking and services ranging from hair stylists to accounting. Sane working hours and vacation time should be taken as a given in the modern economy. Unusually long work hours should be reserved for unusually highly paid professions like investment banking and surgeons.
    - lotsofpulp 11mo ago
      In the US, that might be true if you don't have kids, and/or don't aim to buy a home in a major metro. Otherwise, a lot of those people are going to be working multiple jobs, or relying on a higher earning spouse. Especially retail and restaurant workers. Most won't even get subsidized health insurance from their employer, and if they do, they are not going to be able to afford the deductibles with their income from one 40 hour per week job.
  - thih9 11mo ago
    Sure but overtime in enterprise is paid. In a startup you might get some worthless equity. Also, in startups these things still happen more often, the culture normalizes unpaid overtime, unused PTO, etc. E.g.: > While overtime is a reality in both startups and large corporations, the difference lies in the motivation behind it. In startups, work goes beyond traditional hours, not out of obligation, but from a genuine passion and commitment to achieving shared goals. source: https://www.sdsolutions.tech/post/what-is-a-startup-culture https://www.sdsolutions.tech/post/what-is-a-startup-culture
    - dpark 11mo ago
      > overtime in enterprise is paid. Not in the US. Most enterprise software engineers are salaried and do not receive overtime pay.
- catlover76 11mo ago
  [dead]

mingus88 11mo ago

At that scale, it’s the worst of both worlds. You set the expectation that you can deliver at the pace of a lean startup, but every step of the way you are slowed down by a process or internal dependency that is operating like a fortune 100 company. Large companies should just fund startups and acquire them when the product has shipped than try to create a culture where teams are expected to operate a speedboat that is towed by an oceanliner.

B-Con 11mo ago
> Large companies should just fund startups and acquire them when the product has shipped I mean, that's basically what big tech has been doing for the left 15 years., not then people get upset that "Foo Corp doesn't innovate, it only acquires".

josefritzishere 11mo ago

I have worked at both and... well they're just very different. It's mostly trade offs. What specifically for y'all?

LargeWu 11mo ago
There's dysfunction in both, it's just different types of dysfunction.
- ghaff 11mo ago
  As companies grow (and it's not binary), a lot of things (have to) change which may be to your taste--or may not be.

supportengineer 11mo ago

It's hard to beat the authority and responsibility one personally has at a startup.

uvaursi 11mo ago
Do we have any write ups or post mortems from WhatsApp employees prior to the acquisition and the massive buy out? I want to (artificially perhaps) peg my projects to a smaller cohort of employees if it means the stress to them is worth it if they have the autonomy to ship stuff on their own accord, for a general feeling of having a successful and useful career.
ryandvm 11mo ago
Lol. You'll have exactly 1/1,500,000 the authority and responsibility. They don't mean empowering their workforce. "We want to act more like a startup" is code for we want less accountability for bad decisions.

whazor 11mo ago

I joined an actual startup and am also very happy. We are just focused on making the product work. Not on promo docs or headcount fighting.

legitster 11mo ago

Kinda. The sweet spot is working at a "mid-cap" company. The company is growing and you have resources and freedom to do things, but not so big that you are in a bureaucratic nightmare. I tell people that the best size of company to work at is one that's just barely big enough to have an HR department.

cosmicgadget 11mo ago

It is especially not a good thing when you need to provide reliable services, coordinate across multiple business units, retain talent not chasing an equity payday, and protect your moat. Full disclosure: I do not have an MBA.

ryandvm 11mo ago

100% Finding out that one of the world's largest economic forces aspires to burn out their workforce and spend more time shooting from the hip is depressing.