5 ms·

>It's because European socialist heritage, Stasi, from East Germany, had 2% of its citizens as spies to "read and listen to everybody." Have you ever heard of

>It's because European socialist heritage, Stasi, from East Germany, had 2% of its citizens as spies to "read and listen to everybody." Have you ever heard of the Red Scare "McCarthyism" or the Patriot Act? The EU is the opposite of East Germany, nothing was inherited; they were robbed and left behind.

miohtama 1y ago
The US already fought over this in 90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_wars Just last year, France used similar argument of "exporting illegal encryption against Telegram" to get the master keys to decrypt all end-to-end encrypted messages: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41359745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41359745 The other EU countries have not seen similar proper purge like East Germany did. The secret legacy police is still going strong in countries like Spain, Greece, Hungary, Poland, as we have seen from the cases where these governments are using Pegasus spyware against their own political opposition.
- BSDobelix 1y ago
  >The US already fought over this in 90s: Patriot Act was in 2001, you dont have to break encryption when the NSA can sniff at the source, but let's not just stop there have a look at this: https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/surveillance-timeline https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/surveillance-timeli... >The other EU countries have not seen similar proper purge like East Germany did. And what has that to do with "socialist heritage"? IF East Germany had a proper purge then nothing was inherited into the EU right? >where these governments are using Pegasus spyware against their own political opposition. Yes and then there was Watergate...but again what has Nixon in common with socialism? And maybe have a look at "Merkelphone" when "Friends spy on Friends" https://theconversation.com/merkelphone-scandal-shocks-europe-but-spies-are-unmoved-19567 https://theconversation.com/merkelphone-scandal-shocks-europ... You contradict yourself.
  - miohtama 1y ago
    > when the NSA can sniff at the source That's not how end-to-end encryption works. Are there for example cases where NSA is sniffing Signal app, or even WhatsApp "at source"?
    - BSDobelix 1y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM >That's not how end-to-end encryption works. Hell even the German police can "access" Whats-Up/Facebook. >>German security forces can access personal Whatsapp messages of any user even without installing spyware, several German media institutions reported. >>attains the information of suspects via "Whatsapp Web." https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/german-police-can-access-whatsapp-messages-whenever-it-wants-media-reports https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/german-police-can-ac... And btw the NSA for example is "at first" more interested in metadata, if interesting, cracking of data will begin sometimes talk with big business. I stop here have a good day.
      - miohtama 1y ago
        No, German police cannot access encrypted WhatsApp messages. They specifically state in the introduction of Chat Control act that the reason for the banning end-to-end encrypted communications is that criminals use WhatsApp and police cannot crack the message, hence the Chat Control act. The police cannot crack these messages and they want to read everyone's messages and that's the whole point of making encryption illegal. If you are unfamiliar with the topic, you can read more about Chat Control and encryption here: https://edri.org/our-work/chat-control-what-is-actually-going-on/ https://edri.org/our-work/chat-control-what-is-actually-goin...
        bratwurst3000 1y ago
        i dont want to be the guy but the law is not about police having acces to private messages. As far as I understood they want to scan content for csam material by hashing. and if positive police geta involved. Or am I wrong? Maybe I misunderstood something. but this is still somehow breaking encryption.

miohtama 1y ago

The US already fought over this in 90s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_wars Just last year, France used similar argument of "exporting illegal encryption against Telegram" to get the master keys to decrypt all end-to-end encrypted messages: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41359745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41359745 The other EU countries have not seen similar proper purge like East Germany did. The secret legacy police is still going strong in countries like Spain, Greece, Hungary, Poland, as we have seen from the cases where these governments are using Pegasus spyware against their own political opposition.

BSDobelix 1y ago
>The US already fought over this in 90s: Patriot Act was in 2001, you dont have to break encryption when the NSA can sniff at the source, but let's not just stop there have a look at this: https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/surveillance-timeline https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/surveillance-timeli... >The other EU countries have not seen similar proper purge like East Germany did. And what has that to do with "socialist heritage"? IF East Germany had a proper purge then nothing was inherited into the EU right? >where these governments are using Pegasus spyware against their own political opposition. Yes and then there was Watergate...but again what has Nixon in common with socialism? And maybe have a look at "Merkelphone" when "Friends spy on Friends" https://theconversation.com/merkelphone-scandal-shocks-europe-but-spies-are-unmoved-19567 https://theconversation.com/merkelphone-scandal-shocks-europ... You contradict yourself.
- miohtama 1y ago
  > when the NSA can sniff at the source That's not how end-to-end encryption works. Are there for example cases where NSA is sniffing Signal app, or even WhatsApp "at source"?
  - BSDobelix 1y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM >That's not how end-to-end encryption works. Hell even the German police can "access" Whats-Up/Facebook. >>German security forces can access personal Whatsapp messages of any user even without installing spyware, several German media institutions reported. >>attains the information of suspects via "Whatsapp Web." https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/german-police-can-access-whatsapp-messages-whenever-it-wants-media-reports https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/german-police-can-ac... And btw the NSA for example is "at first" more interested in metadata, if interesting, cracking of data will begin sometimes talk with big business. I stop here have a good day.
    - miohtama 1y ago
      No, German police cannot access encrypted WhatsApp messages. They specifically state in the introduction of Chat Control act that the reason for the banning end-to-end encrypted communications is that criminals use WhatsApp and police cannot crack the message, hence the Chat Control act. The police cannot crack these messages and they want to read everyone's messages and that's the whole point of making encryption illegal. If you are unfamiliar with the topic, you can read more about Chat Control and encryption here: https://edri.org/our-work/chat-control-what-is-actually-going-on/ https://edri.org/our-work/chat-control-what-is-actually-goin...
      - bratwurst3000 1y ago
        i dont want to be the guy but the law is not about police having acces to private messages. As far as I understood they want to scan content for csam material by hashing. and if positive police geta involved. Or am I wrong? Maybe I misunderstood something. but this is still somehow breaking encryption.