7 ms·

> They are hardly present in the public eye. Most people don't know them, except perhaps by name. Their music is probably too niche for the mainstream; The OP

by louthy 1y ago

> They are hardly present in the public eye. Most people don't know them, except perhaps by name. Their music is probably too niche for the mainstream; The OP talked about their importance, not their current popularity. They directly inspired many who went on to create what is now the electronic music scene. A good example is their influence of the Belleville Three [0] who invented Detroit techno, which inspired Belgian techno, that inspired the UK rave scene that brought the future of electronic music (jungle, drum n bass, grime, etc). Of the four big electronic music genres of the 80s: electro, house, techno, and hip-hop - Kraftwerk were influences on two of them and arguably three with the more 808 led west-coast hop-hop, like Egyptian Lover. They are the seed that modern electronic music grew from. Many who produce electronic music, including myself, consider them pioneers. > However, it is difficult to compare Kraftwerk with the Beatles. Let's face it: rock music (in the broadest sense) has a much higher profile in the public eye than electronic music. There are no bands in the charts any more [1]. Electronic music (and pop music, which is mostly electronic) has won (at least for now)! Again though, let’s not confuse popularity with importance — even though Kraftwerk did have massive chart success and still tour to sell out stadiums today — their influence far outstretches the Beatles imho. I think, aside from some interesting recording techniques pioneered at Abbey Road by George Martin, they’re not that influential. Sure, their songs are catchy pop songs, but there wasn’t much innovation there. They’re less important than say Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath (in terms of the evolution of rock music, that is). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Belleville_Three https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Belleville_Three [1] https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9hOyt2oSz1/?igsh=aHIwcG5lZnYyYWVm https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9hOyt2oSz1/?igsh=aHIwcG5lZnY...

Affric 1y ago
Looking at the billboard hot 100 it all looks like Beatles style pop songs played with electronic instruments and it doesn’t sound much like kraftwerk
- Supernaut 1y ago
  > the billboard hot 100 [...] all looks like Beatles style pop songs played with electronic instruments Correct, and Kraftwerk's enduring influence on the charts is not their compositional style, as excellent as it was. It was by demonstrating that pop music could be performed solely with electronic instruments that they changed the world.
  - Affric 1y ago
    It’s interesting their schtick was that they were robots and that the line between man and machine was blurred but I think that really it was just the instrument. A dehumanisation of themselves while exploring human themes contrasts well with the GAI craze whereby humans are ripped off by anthropomorphised mathematical models. Truly music for our age anf anticipating the future.
maxfurman 1y ago
Kraftwerk were hugely influential on the pioneers of hip-hop. One clear example is Afrika Bambaataa sampling "Trans-Europe Express" for "Planet Rock," one of the earliest hip-hop records.
- RiverCrochet 1y ago
  There are still new songs coming out that use samples from Numbers.
  - Lio 1y ago
    Numbers is my favourite Kraftwerk track. I think it's just perfect. I swear you could still play that out and it's as fresh as ever. I don't know much about pop music but Coldplay were clearly influenced by Computer Love and Kyle Minougue has also borrowed heavily for "Can't Get You Out of My Head". I think both have spoken about Kraftwerk's influence.
- louthy 1y ago
  You’re right, that completely slipped my mind!
piltdownman 1y ago
>> who invented Detroit techno, which inspired Belgian techno, that inspired the UK rave scene that brought the future of electronic music (jungle, drum n bass, grime, etc). Lol, Belgian acts like Technotronic's with 'Pump Up the Jam' and the hyper-commercialisation of the Eurodance scene were not really comparable with the Aceeeed Overpass Parties typified by the likes of Guy Called Gerald, 808 State etc... leading into FSOL, 4Hero and charting a path to something like Goldie eventually. Belgian Techno > UK Acid House is not a natural progression versus the dozens of new-wave and synth bands influencing everything from Autechre to 808 State via two specific Madchester studios and the Hacienda/FACT scene spurred on by Tony Wilson following his post-punk departure from Granada. The end of the doc 'Synth Brittania' and the Coogan masterpiece '24 Hour Party People' chart the influences and cross-pollination of the scenes at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_Studios https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_Studios https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n93c6 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n93c6 >> They are the seed that modern electronic music grew from _A_ seed certainly. Huge debt owed to the 70s UK heads birthing multiple genres just by abusing an EMS VCS 3 if you want to track it directly. Berlin School electronica is a thing as well, with the likes of Tangerine Dream predating Kraftwerk. That's without even getting into Schaeffer, Stockhausen or Carlos in terms of cause/effect. >> I think, aside from some interesting recording techniques pioneered at Abbey Road by George Martin, they’re not that influential I mean 'Helter Skelter' alone is a legitimate precursor to Heavy Metal as a Genre, and the amount of double-tracking and tape-loop tricks they introduced post-musique concréte alone would fill a wiki, but asides from that: - First ever band to perform in a Stadium - First rock band with a backwards guitar solo - First band to use a Symphony Orchestra - First rock band concept Album - First band to print lyrics on the back of an album cover - First rock band to use a Moog Synthesiser - First to use feedback deliberately and intentionally on a rock recording - First band to use Artificial Double Tracking (ADT) - First band to Multi-mike drum-kits Abbey Road alone probably has a dozen more 'firsts' fwiw.
- Lio 1y ago
  > Belgian Techno > UK Acid House is not a natural progression I had to laugh at the idea of Technotronic being a big influence, that just makes me think of Philomena Cunk. However, (off the top of my head) LFO, Orbital and Luke Slater have all listed Belgian EBM acts like Front 242 as inspiration. Front 242 list Kraftwerk as an inflence so there is a lineage.
seedlessmike 1y ago
This is very dismissive of The Beatles. I agree there isn't much sonic similarity to them anymore in charting music, though there is a lot of great new music released that is heavily in their debt. Tame Impala (up until the latest album) is probably the most recent big artist to wear an obvious Beatles influence. the examples of LZ and Ozzy - "She Loves You" moved Ozzy to start a band. Sabbath sounds nothing like The Beatles, but inspiration doesn't require a similar sound. This is more of a fun story than an inspiration - The Beatles inspired Graham Gouldman (later of 10cc) to write "For Your Love", which he then gave to The Yardbirds. Eric Clapton didn't like it, and left The Yardbirds and joined The Bluesbreakers, and then founded Cream. Jeff Beck replaced him, and was later joined by a London studio musician named.. Jimmy Page and The Yardbirds becamae The New Yardbirds and then Led Zeppelin. So, Zeppelin may never have existed if not for The Beatles. In general, they blew the doors open for all the British bands to have success here. The Beatles' influence on how contemporary music sounds has waned, you're right about that - it's certainly favored an electronic direction. The early/mid 90s were the last period where they really loomed large, as the grunge, neo-psychedelia, and britpop bands loved the Beatles. To me, Nirvana and Soundgarden sound nothing like The Beatles but they both claim to have composed songs trying to imitate The Beatles. It's not always obvious to us as listeners. Their influence on how music is made in a studio is indelible, though. They were relentless in experimentation. Their requests forced George Martin to realize his brilliance as a producer. George Martin didn't invent the recording techniques - Geoff Emerick and Ken Townshend did (couple of example - close miking bowed instruments, automatic double tracking, both of which immediately became commonplace). They also remain influential on the concept of a band. They had total creative control and they wielded it, as Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder and Prince and others later did. Gordy probably doesn't let Marvin do "What's Goin On" if the era the Beatles ushered in didn't threaten Motown so much. The Beatles were a cultural and social phenomenon in addition to a musical one. They had a lot of gravity. None of this is to argue that Kraftwerk are anything but titans. I love Kraftwerk. Much of my favorite music is the result of the Beatles' and Kraftwerk's combined influence. "Souvenir" by OMD is an example - that has both influences all over it. Since you are immersed in and create electronic music you feel Krafterk's influence more. Instrumentalists and singers probably feel more Beatles influence. last point - I watched Blade Runner in 2019. I loved it, but it just felt like a good sci fi movie. It didn't feel important or innovative, because every sci fi movie since Blade Runner bears its influence. We can't imagine hearing Revolver in 1966, or something as indulgent as Sgt Pepper just a year later (along with all the Magical Mystery Tour songs). It doesn't sound revolutionary anymore, but at the time, it was.

by louthy 1y ago

Affric 1y ago

Looking at the billboard hot 100 it all looks like Beatles style pop songs played with electronic instruments and it doesn’t sound much like kraftwerk

Supernaut 1y ago
> the billboard hot 100 [...] all looks like Beatles style pop songs played with electronic instruments Correct, and Kraftwerk's enduring influence on the charts is not their compositional style, as excellent as it was. It was by demonstrating that pop music could be performed solely with electronic instruments that they changed the world.
- Affric 1y ago
  It’s interesting their schtick was that they were robots and that the line between man and machine was blurred but I think that really it was just the instrument. A dehumanisation of themselves while exploring human themes contrasts well with the GAI craze whereby humans are ripped off by anthropomorphised mathematical models. Truly music for our age anf anticipating the future.

maxfurman 1y ago

Kraftwerk were hugely influential on the pioneers of hip-hop. One clear example is Afrika Bambaataa sampling "Trans-Europe Express" for "Planet Rock," one of the earliest hip-hop records.

RiverCrochet 1y ago
There are still new songs coming out that use samples from Numbers.
- Lio 1y ago
  Numbers is my favourite Kraftwerk track. I think it's just perfect. I swear you could still play that out and it's as fresh as ever. I don't know much about pop music but Coldplay were clearly influenced by Computer Love and Kyle Minougue has also borrowed heavily for "Can't Get You Out of My Head". I think both have spoken about Kraftwerk's influence.
louthy 1y ago
You’re right, that completely slipped my mind!

piltdownman 1y ago

>> who invented Detroit techno, which inspired Belgian techno, that inspired the UK rave scene that brought the future of electronic music (jungle, drum n bass, grime, etc). Lol, Belgian acts like Technotronic's with 'Pump Up the Jam' and the hyper-commercialisation of the Eurodance scene were not really comparable with the Aceeeed Overpass Parties typified by the likes of Guy Called Gerald, 808 State etc... leading into FSOL, 4Hero and charting a path to something like Goldie eventually. Belgian Techno > UK Acid House is not a natural progression versus the dozens of new-wave and synth bands influencing everything from Autechre to 808 State via two specific Madchester studios and the Hacienda/FACT scene spurred on by Tony Wilson following his post-punk departure from Granada. The end of the doc 'Synth Brittania' and the Coogan masterpiece '24 Hour Party People' chart the influences and cross-pollination of the scenes at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_Studios https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_Studios https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n93c6 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n93c6 >> They are the seed that modern electronic music grew from _A_ seed certainly. Huge debt owed to the 70s UK heads birthing multiple genres just by abusing an EMS VCS 3 if you want to track it directly. Berlin School electronica is a thing as well, with the likes of Tangerine Dream predating Kraftwerk. That's without even getting into Schaeffer, Stockhausen or Carlos in terms of cause/effect. >> I think, aside from some interesting recording techniques pioneered at Abbey Road by George Martin, they’re not that influential I mean 'Helter Skelter' alone is a legitimate precursor to Heavy Metal as a Genre, and the amount of double-tracking and tape-loop tricks they introduced post-musique concréte alone would fill a wiki, but asides from that: - First ever band to perform in a Stadium - First rock band with a backwards guitar solo - First band to use a Symphony Orchestra - First rock band concept Album - First band to print lyrics on the back of an album cover - First rock band to use a Moog Synthesiser - First to use feedback deliberately and intentionally on a rock recording - First band to use Artificial Double Tracking (ADT) - First band to Multi-mike drum-kits Abbey Road alone probably has a dozen more 'firsts' fwiw.

Lio 1y ago
> Belgian Techno > UK Acid House is not a natural progression I had to laugh at the idea of Technotronic being a big influence, that just makes me think of Philomena Cunk. However, (off the top of my head) LFO, Orbital and Luke Slater have all listed Belgian EBM acts like Front 242 as inspiration. Front 242 list Kraftwerk as an inflence so there is a lineage.

seedlessmike 1y ago

This is very dismissive of The Beatles. I agree there isn't much sonic similarity to them anymore in charting music, though there is a lot of great new music released that is heavily in their debt. Tame Impala (up until the latest album) is probably the most recent big artist to wear an obvious Beatles influence. the examples of LZ and Ozzy - "She Loves You" moved Ozzy to start a band. Sabbath sounds nothing like The Beatles, but inspiration doesn't require a similar sound. This is more of a fun story than an inspiration - The Beatles inspired Graham Gouldman (later of 10cc) to write "For Your Love", which he then gave to The Yardbirds. Eric Clapton didn't like it, and left The Yardbirds and joined The Bluesbreakers, and then founded Cream. Jeff Beck replaced him, and was later joined by a London studio musician named.. Jimmy Page and The Yardbirds becamae The New Yardbirds and then Led Zeppelin. So, Zeppelin may never have existed if not for The Beatles. In general, they blew the doors open for all the British bands to have success here. The Beatles' influence on how contemporary music sounds has waned, you're right about that - it's certainly favored an electronic direction. The early/mid 90s were the last period where they really loomed large, as the grunge, neo-psychedelia, and britpop bands loved the Beatles. To me, Nirvana and Soundgarden sound nothing like The Beatles but they both claim to have composed songs trying to imitate The Beatles. It's not always obvious to us as listeners. Their influence on how music is made in a studio is indelible, though. They were relentless in experimentation. Their requests forced George Martin to realize his brilliance as a producer. George Martin didn't invent the recording techniques - Geoff Emerick and Ken Townshend did (couple of example - close miking bowed instruments, automatic double tracking, both of which immediately became commonplace). They also remain influential on the concept of a band. They had total creative control and they wielded it, as Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder and Prince and others later did. Gordy probably doesn't let Marvin do "What's Goin On" if the era the Beatles ushered in didn't threaten Motown so much. The Beatles were a cultural and social phenomenon in addition to a musical one. They had a lot of gravity. None of this is to argue that Kraftwerk are anything but titans. I love Kraftwerk. Much of my favorite music is the result of the Beatles' and Kraftwerk's combined influence. "Souvenir" by OMD is an example - that has both influences all over it. Since you are immersed in and create electronic music you feel Krafterk's influence more. Instrumentalists and singers probably feel more Beatles influence. last point - I watched Blade Runner in 2019. I loved it, but it just felt like a good sci fi movie. It didn't feel important or innovative, because every sci fi movie since Blade Runner bears its influence. We can't imagine hearing Revolver in 1966, or something as indulgent as Sgt Pepper just a year later (along with all the Magical Mystery Tour songs). It doesn't sound revolutionary anymore, but at the time, it was.