5 ms·

All these companies depend on TSMC for their life.

sho_hn 1y ago
And TSMC depends on machines by ASML they can also sell to others. And ASML licensed the technology from EUV LLC. Which was a conglomerate of a bunch of state-funded US research labs. And the US cut its science funding. Misery all the way down!
- yieldcrv 1y ago
  It’s a conglomerate of researchers that were employed by the feds and private institutions who met have received various forms of grants I think the science funding cuts will be inconsequential to that entity
  - lokar 1y ago
    But what about the next area where science can have a massive impact?
    - yieldcrv 1y ago
      sounds like a totally different thread to me
- throw0101a 1y ago
  > And ASML licensed the technology from EUV LLC. And glass/mirrors from Zeiss, amongst a whole bunch others: > ASML employs more than 42,000 people[1] from 143 nationalities and relies on a network of nearly 5,000 tier 1 suppliers.[6] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding * https://www.robotsops.com/complete-list-of-all-suppliers-and-vendors-for-asml/ https://www.robotsops.com/complete-list-of-all-suppliers-and... Let's also not forget the the two most prominent chip design software companies, Cadence and Synopsys, are American: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EDA_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EDA_companies There are all sorts of inter-dependencies between companies and countries: welcome to globalization.
seizethecheese 1y ago
If true, TSMC would command much higher margins. Their net revenue is a fraction of Nvidia or Apple
- trenchpilgrim 1y ago
  TSMC's business is much higher risk, each improvement to manufacturing process is a massive investment that's never a guaranteed success.
- tyre 1y ago
  TSMC is famous for not taking margin when they could. It’s part of their strategy.
nomilk 1y ago
Had to look up what TSMC meant (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company). What would Apple's next best option be if a war rendered TSMC unavailable?
- madeofpalk 1y ago
  https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/02/apple-will-spend-more-than-500-billion-usd-in-the-us-over-the-next-four-years/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/02/apple-will-spend-more... > The fund’s expansion includes a multibillion-dollar commitment from Apple to produce advanced silicon in TSMC’s Fab 21 facility in Arizona. Apple is the largest customer at this state-of-the-art facility, which employs more than 2,000 workers to manufacture the chips in the United States. Mass production of Apple chips began last month.
- colechristensen 1y ago
  >What would Apple's next best option be if a war rendered TSMC unavailable? Onshore TSMC fabs followed by Intel fabs. Properly motivated, I think Intel and Apple could do a lot relatively quickly.
  - 45764986 1y ago
    The supply chain for this simply does not exist.
  - throwaway31131 1y ago
    TSMC in Taiwan has a significant share of the wafers produced by the world every month. If those wafers were not produced the global economy would suffer badly. It takes years to bring a fab online. Fab 21 in Arizona took 5 years to enter mass production from ground breaking. Some believe it could be done in two but that’s yet to be demonstrated. Then there are the wafers themselves. The total time it takes to process one wafer at the single nm scale is around 100 days. So realistically, even if one makes up their mind to make a fab fast, you’re looking at 3 years before you have your first sellable wafer.
- 45764986 1y ago
jayd16 1y ago
I mean... do they? TSMC is the best but in a world where they had to use Samsung or Intel is it really a death sentence?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- tomcam 1y ago
  My intuition is that we would adapt just fine. Maybe we'd have to drop to assembly more often, read the chip docs closely, etc. Unheard-of performance benefits are still being found from Commodore 64s and first-gen IBM PCs, for crying out loud. What if we wrung every last cycle out of the Samsung or Intel chips?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

And TSMC depends on machines by ASML they can also sell to others. And ASML licensed the technology from EUV LLC. Which was a conglomerate of a bunch of state-funded US research labs. And the US cut its science funding. Misery all the way down!

yieldcrv 1y ago
It’s a conglomerate of researchers that were employed by the feds and private institutions who met have received various forms of grants I think the science funding cuts will be inconsequential to that entity
- lokar 1y ago
  But what about the next area where science can have a massive impact?
  - yieldcrv 1y ago
    sounds like a totally different thread to me
throw0101a 1y ago
> And ASML licensed the technology from EUV LLC. And glass/mirrors from Zeiss, amongst a whole bunch others: > ASML employs more than 42,000 people[1] from 143 nationalities and relies on a network of nearly 5,000 tier 1 suppliers.[6] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding * https://www.robotsops.com/complete-list-of-all-suppliers-and-vendors-for-asml/ https://www.robotsops.com/complete-list-of-all-suppliers-and... Let's also not forget the the two most prominent chip design software companies, Cadence and Synopsys, are American: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EDA_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EDA_companies There are all sorts of inter-dependencies between companies and countries: welcome to globalization.

seizethecheese 1y ago

If true, TSMC would command much higher margins. Their net revenue is a fraction of Nvidia or Apple

trenchpilgrim 1y ago
TSMC's business is much higher risk, each improvement to manufacturing process is a massive investment that's never a guaranteed success.
tyre 1y ago
TSMC is famous for not taking margin when they could. It’s part of their strategy.

nomilk 1y ago

Had to look up what TSMC meant (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company). What would Apple's next best option be if a war rendered TSMC unavailable?

madeofpalk 1y ago
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/02/apple-will-spend-more-than-500-billion-usd-in-the-us-over-the-next-four-years/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/02/apple-will-spend-more... > The fund’s expansion includes a multibillion-dollar commitment from Apple to produce advanced silicon in TSMC’s Fab 21 facility in Arizona. Apple is the largest customer at this state-of-the-art facility, which employs more than 2,000 workers to manufacture the chips in the United States. Mass production of Apple chips began last month.
colechristensen 1y ago
>What would Apple's next best option be if a war rendered TSMC unavailable? Onshore TSMC fabs followed by Intel fabs. Properly motivated, I think Intel and Apple could do a lot relatively quickly.
- 45764986 1y ago
  The supply chain for this simply does not exist.
- throwaway31131 1y ago
  TSMC in Taiwan has a significant share of the wafers produced by the world every month. If those wafers were not produced the global economy would suffer badly. It takes years to bring a fab online. Fab 21 in Arizona took 5 years to enter mass production from ground breaking. Some believe it could be done in two but that’s yet to be demonstrated. Then there are the wafers themselves. The total time it takes to process one wafer at the single nm scale is around 100 days. So realistically, even if one makes up their mind to make a fab fast, you’re looking at 3 years before you have your first sellable wafer.
45764986 1y ago

jayd16 1y ago

I mean... do they? TSMC is the best but in a world where they had to use Samsung or Intel is it really a death sentence?

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
tomcam 1y ago
My intuition is that we would adapt just fine. Maybe we'd have to drop to assembly more often, read the chip docs closely, etc. Unheard-of performance benefits are still being found from Commodore 64s and first-gen IBM PCs, for crying out loud. What if we wrung every last cycle out of the Samsung or Intel chips?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]